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> Yeah, I guess I have a longer view since our first IBM compatible PC was a 286 based XT form factor. The first time I used a PC was an Amiga in 1989. As my

> Yeah, I guess I have a longer view since our first IBM compatible PC was a 286 based XT form factor. The first time I used a PC was an Amiga in 1989. As my username implies, I was only 7 years old at the time. My first IBM-compatible PC was a 486, I think in 1993. My dad got a used one and bought some multimedia kit that included a CD-ROM drive and audio card (Likely Sound Blaster, or at the very least, Sound Blaster compatible). Played a bunch of Stellar 7 and King's Quest, but also got into DOOM and Master of Orion. That 486 was the start of the Ship of Theseus PC, though I didn't play a part in replacing parts until 1999 when I was 17 and bought a new hard drive with the money from my first job. Until then, my dad did the upgrades, but I always watched with great interest. > Some folks like me had a phase of trying to accelerate the down-sizing, abandoning our ATX/uATX for things like the Shuttle XPC mini/bookshelf computer formats. The tiny form factors like uATX and ITX never really interested me. Even when I started going to LAN events, I preferred a normal sized PC, even though my current rig probably weighs like 30-35 lbs. My GPU alone is like 3 lbs, and the Hyte Y60 case is 21 lbs empty. > This also leads to periodically thinking just a laptop will suffice I could never. My demands for being able to upgrade, not to mention to have something aesthetically pleasing, are too much for a laptop. I don't even have a laptop for casual use.

saltcured 5mo ago
Yeah I've got a few years on you... I was running Linux on my 386 in college in '93. And within a year or so I had upgraded it to 486DX3 and had a DEC Alpha alongside it also running Linux, with the two connected by ethernet. I haven't bought a discrete graphics card since those days and it was an XGA compatible 2D accelerator. Every 3D card I've used has been in a work machine. At home, I've always used iGPU solutions with my AMD Ryzen laptop being my most powerful. And I had more than one phase where a Thinkpad was all I had as we moved around. Instead of graphcics, I went crazy with HDD arrays at times. Software RAID with 3-5 disks was the most cost effective and reliable way to do bulk storage for a time period before huge HDDs and SSDs were affordable. I even built a 10 disk mini tower PC for a family member who was obsessed with recording broadcast TV via MythTV.
- Sohcahtoa82 5mo ago
  > I haven't bought a discrete graphics card since those days and it was an XGA compatible 2D accelerator. I've never had a PC that didn't have a discrete graphics card. But I'm a gamer, so a discrete graphics card is basically a necessity unless I stick with 10+ year old games and 2D games.
  - saltcured 5mo ago
    Hah, yes, I have stuck to relatively classic 2.5D and 3D games that work on current iGPUs. It's nearly a nostalgia thing since I met Doom in college. I struggle with the gaming hardware ROI, when I see how things become obsolete. E.g. my work bought me a Titan-X in 2015 for numerical/image processing work. Ten years later my Ryzen 7840u had nearly the same GFLOPs, though of course with less memory bandwidth. It also does it with vastly less heat/noise. I know I would enjoy immersive VR. But I don't hink I would use it often enough to justify all that dedicated gear and the computer strong enough to drive it.
    - Sohcahtoa82 5mo ago
      > I struggle with the gaming hardware ROI, when I see how things become obsolete. E.g. my work bought me a Titan-X in 2015 for numerical/image processing work. Ten years later my Ryzen 7840u had nearly the same GFLOPs, 10 years is an eternity in computer hardware. The idea that you should be able to get 7+ years from your hardware is a more recent thing. Imagine comparing the 2.8 Ghz Pentium 4 you could get in 2002 with the 66 Mhz 486 that was state-of-the-art in 1993. It used to be that processor speeds were literally doubling every ~18 months. The computer you bought to run Windows 95 would have choked on Windows XP 6 years later. Hardware ROI has gotten better in terms of how long you can use a system. Just look at how many people on HN talk about using 10 year old hardware for both productivity and gaming. I've got a 5090, sure, but that's mainly because of wanting to play MS Flight Simulator 2024 and Cyberpunk 2077 with all the details cranked in 4K at 240 fps, and wanting enough VRAM to do local models. If I was okay with lower detail settings in 1080p at 60 fps, I could get by with even a 9 year old 1080 Ti. Meanwhile, imagine trying to use a computer from 1992 in 2001 as Windows XP is dropping. EDIT: > I know I would enjoy immersive VR. But I don't hink I would use it often enough to justify all that dedicated gear and the computer strong enough to drive it. It takes surprisingly little to enjoy VR. I think most games are written for the Quest 3 which isn't all that powerful, and then ported to PC with the same graphical fidelity. When I first got a VR headset, I was on a GTX 1070 and it played Beat Saber at the 90 fps that my headset did just fine.

saltcured 5mo ago

Yeah I've got a few years on you... I was running Linux on my 386 in college in '93. And within a year or so I had upgraded it to 486DX3 and had a DEC Alpha alongside it also running Linux, with the two connected by ethernet. I haven't bought a discrete graphics card since those days and it was an XGA compatible 2D accelerator. Every 3D card I've used has been in a work machine. At home, I've always used iGPU solutions with my AMD Ryzen laptop being my most powerful. And I had more than one phase where a Thinkpad was all I had as we moved around. Instead of graphcics, I went crazy with HDD arrays at times. Software RAID with 3-5 disks was the most cost effective and reliable way to do bulk storage for a time period before huge HDDs and SSDs were affordable. I even built a 10 disk mini tower PC for a family member who was obsessed with recording broadcast TV via MythTV.

Sohcahtoa82 5mo ago
> I haven't bought a discrete graphics card since those days and it was an XGA compatible 2D accelerator. I've never had a PC that didn't have a discrete graphics card. But I'm a gamer, so a discrete graphics card is basically a necessity unless I stick with 10+ year old games and 2D games.
- saltcured 5mo ago
  Hah, yes, I have stuck to relatively classic 2.5D and 3D games that work on current iGPUs. It's nearly a nostalgia thing since I met Doom in college. I struggle with the gaming hardware ROI, when I see how things become obsolete. E.g. my work bought me a Titan-X in 2015 for numerical/image processing work. Ten years later my Ryzen 7840u had nearly the same GFLOPs, though of course with less memory bandwidth. It also does it with vastly less heat/noise. I know I would enjoy immersive VR. But I don't hink I would use it often enough to justify all that dedicated gear and the computer strong enough to drive it.
  - Sohcahtoa82 5mo ago
    > I struggle with the gaming hardware ROI, when I see how things become obsolete. E.g. my work bought me a Titan-X in 2015 for numerical/image processing work. Ten years later my Ryzen 7840u had nearly the same GFLOPs, 10 years is an eternity in computer hardware. The idea that you should be able to get 7+ years from your hardware is a more recent thing. Imagine comparing the 2.8 Ghz Pentium 4 you could get in 2002 with the 66 Mhz 486 that was state-of-the-art in 1993. It used to be that processor speeds were literally doubling every ~18 months. The computer you bought to run Windows 95 would have choked on Windows XP 6 years later. Hardware ROI has gotten better in terms of how long you can use a system. Just look at how many people on HN talk about using 10 year old hardware for both productivity and gaming. I've got a 5090, sure, but that's mainly because of wanting to play MS Flight Simulator 2024 and Cyberpunk 2077 with all the details cranked in 4K at 240 fps, and wanting enough VRAM to do local models. If I was okay with lower detail settings in 1080p at 60 fps, I could get by with even a 9 year old 1080 Ti. Meanwhile, imagine trying to use a computer from 1992 in 2001 as Windows XP is dropping. EDIT: > I know I would enjoy immersive VR. But I don't hink I would use it often enough to justify all that dedicated gear and the computer strong enough to drive it. It takes surprisingly little to enjoy VR. I think most games are written for the Quest 3 which isn't all that powerful, and then ported to PC with the same graphical fidelity. When I first got a VR headset, I was on a GTX 1070 and it played Beat Saber at the 90 fps that my headset did just fine.