4 ms·

Who even makes the decision to drop having a standard bar to verify students? And what possible benefit would that have?

by ap99 4mo ago

throwatdem12311 4mo ago
Why else does anyone in California get rid of anything? Because it’s racist.
- contagiousflow 4mo ago
  See: when they banned guns because of the black panthers.
- logicalmind 4mo ago
  You should probably take a look at the demographics of the top scores of the standardized tests like the SAT. You're not going to find the race you think at the top.
  - throwatdem12311 4mo ago
    Do you think I wouldn’t know? Pray tell which race do you think I’m going to expect to find? Because let me tell you, the demographics are pretty much exactly what I expected. And my response to that is…so what? If anything you’re telling on yourself with your statement.
    - logicalmind 4mo ago
      Rather than have me guess about what you know, would you care to explain what you meant by your original comment then? What exactly were you referring to as "racist"?
      - vladgur 4mo ago
        I read his comment as tongue-in-cheek. Why was SAT gotten rid off - testing is racist. Why is 6-8th grade accelerated math pathway gotten rid off - math is racist https://edsource.org/2021/california-math-guidance-sparks-new-curriculum-controversy-among-parents/655272 https://edsource.org/2021/california-math-guidance-sparks-ne...
rrr_oh_man 4mo ago
More leeway in who you accept (for money and/or clout).
arjie 4mo ago
The book SAT Wars has arguments for and against and the striking thing for me was that some in admissions believe in a concept called crafting a class: the applicants are input into the admissions officer’s artisanal contribution to producing a class that they believe would be good for the university to have. The idea of a standard bar and so on does sound like it would interfere with such a process. I always did find it interesting that US notions of anti-racism required treating individuals not as individuals but as racial representatives. It’s a local quirk of the culture of the land, I suppose, that one’s primary identification here is one’s skin colour.
- usui 4mo ago
  America's vapid fixation with race is ridiculous especially since it uses race as a proxy for social stratum when it could just be addressing class issues directly instead. If only there were some history of forms that parents fill out every year showing their income to the government that is more-or-less vetted to some degree—too bad we don't have such a thing that students could use to prove social stratum! Plus, what the hell is race anyway? An unethical tip one could give to university applicants would be to claim membership to the most beneficial group because it's not like university admissions has any way of proving your "race". Construct any fabricated story that'll get the most approval and maximize your chances of getting into a top university.
  - kenjackson 4mo ago
    Unfortunately, the fixation with race in America doesn't start nor stop at college admissions. College admissions is probably the last place where it tilts in the direction of certain minority groups. I agree that we should just stop using race everywhere and we should crack down on it -- but I think college wouldn't be where my energy would be... actually the military is where I'd start. And oddly it's the place where race based affirmative action is still permitted (military academies - where it benefits minorities) and in its halls (where I've heard that it has a strong white supremacist bent). The reason is because what is happening in colleges is more reactionary -- fix the catalyst and the arguments for the reaction largely go away.
- 4mo ago
boelboel 4mo ago
I thought for most universities it was because some schools didn't organise the tests and others did during COVID.
sfink 4mo ago
The decision wasn't specifically to drop a standard bar. It was to drop the existing bars because they have become heavily gamed and are far more reliable indicators of your family's resources than your ability or likelihood of success. That was the equity argument. Unfortunately, the lost signal wasn't replaced with anything. (I don't know what could replace it. It's an incredibly hard problem. )
- fc417fc802 4mo ago
  Easily gamed? Sure, education is pay to win on some level but we're talking basic prerequisites here. If the objection is that disadvantaged would-be students are being filtered out then start an outreach program to help them prep or something.

Who even makes the decision to drop having a standard bar to verify students? And what possible benefit would that have?

by ap99 4mo ago

Who even makes the decision to drop having a standard bar to verify students? And what possible benefit would that have?

throwatdem12311 4mo ago

Why else does anyone in California get rid of anything? Because it’s racist.

contagiousflow 4mo ago
See: when they banned guns because of the black panthers.
logicalmind 4mo ago
You should probably take a look at the demographics of the top scores of the standardized tests like the SAT. You're not going to find the race you think at the top.
- throwatdem12311 4mo ago
  Do you think I wouldn’t know? Pray tell which race do you think I’m going to expect to find? Because let me tell you, the demographics are pretty much exactly what I expected. And my response to that is…so what? If anything you’re telling on yourself with your statement.
  - logicalmind 4mo ago
    Rather than have me guess about what you know, would you care to explain what you meant by your original comment then? What exactly were you referring to as "racist"?
    - vladgur 4mo ago
      I read his comment as tongue-in-cheek. Why was SAT gotten rid off - testing is racist. Why is 6-8th grade accelerated math pathway gotten rid off - math is racist https://edsource.org/2021/california-math-guidance-sparks-new-curriculum-controversy-among-parents/655272 https://edsource.org/2021/california-math-guidance-sparks-ne...

rrr_oh_man 4mo ago

More leeway in who you accept (for money and/or clout).

arjie 4mo ago

The book SAT Wars has arguments for and against and the striking thing for me was that some in admissions believe in a concept called crafting a class: the applicants are input into the admissions officer’s artisanal contribution to producing a class that they believe would be good for the university to have. The idea of a standard bar and so on does sound like it would interfere with such a process. I always did find it interesting that US notions of anti-racism required treating individuals not as individuals but as racial representatives. It’s a local quirk of the culture of the land, I suppose, that one’s primary identification here is one’s skin colour.

usui 4mo ago
America's vapid fixation with race is ridiculous especially since it uses race as a proxy for social stratum when it could just be addressing class issues directly instead. If only there were some history of forms that parents fill out every year showing their income to the government that is more-or-less vetted to some degree—too bad we don't have such a thing that students could use to prove social stratum! Plus, what the hell is race anyway? An unethical tip one could give to university applicants would be to claim membership to the most beneficial group because it's not like university admissions has any way of proving your "race". Construct any fabricated story that'll get the most approval and maximize your chances of getting into a top university.
- kenjackson 4mo ago
  Unfortunately, the fixation with race in America doesn't start nor stop at college admissions. College admissions is probably the last place where it tilts in the direction of certain minority groups. I agree that we should just stop using race everywhere and we should crack down on it -- but I think college wouldn't be where my energy would be... actually the military is where I'd start. And oddly it's the place where race based affirmative action is still permitted (military academies - where it benefits minorities) and in its halls (where I've heard that it has a strong white supremacist bent). The reason is because what is happening in colleges is more reactionary -- fix the catalyst and the arguments for the reaction largely go away.
4mo ago

boelboel 4mo ago

I thought for most universities it was because some schools didn't organise the tests and others did during COVID.

sfink 4mo ago

The decision wasn't specifically to drop a standard bar. It was to drop the existing bars because they have become heavily gamed and are far more reliable indicators of your family's resources than your ability or likelihood of success. That was the equity argument. Unfortunately, the lost signal wasn't replaced with anything. (I don't know what could replace it. It's an incredibly hard problem. )

fc417fc802 4mo ago
Easily gamed? Sure, education is pay to win on some level but we're talking basic prerequisites here. If the objection is that disadvantaged would-be students are being filtered out then start an outreach program to help them prep or something.