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I'm not American so maybe I am missing some context. But how did admissions work without test scores?

by schnitzelstoat 4mo ago

36733883 4mo ago
[flagged]
- torben-friis 4mo ago
  >We used a vibes based system based on how compelling a sob story you could concoct whilst staying on the good side of fraud. Besides lost meritocracy, that is accidentally filtering for ability and willingness to manipulate others emotionally. Which feels really scary.
  - Forgeties79 4mo ago
    Honestly I don’t believe a thing they’re saying. Just look at the demographics of any Ivy League school and you’ll see it can’t be true
    - throwawy33z 4mo ago
      My kid applied to Brown and others and the prep company we hired ($150/hr) spent more time going through the "sob story" the parent talked about than any other requirement (kids scores are to be fair quite decent already).
      - Forgeties79 4mo ago
        I’m not saying that it’s dumb money to go with a sob story college admission essay, I just don’t think they’re being truthful with their experience. It reads like someone lifted a comment from /r/conservative about what they think the admissions process is.
- watwut 4mo ago
  Somehow majority of Ivy League students don't have those sob stories and did not had for last years either?
- Forgeties79 4mo ago
  Your comment sounds vibes-based
  - plagiarist 4mo ago
    It sounds like yet another far-right racist spreading misinformation under a randomly generated username. "Anno Floyd," fuck's sake, they have a severe brainworm infection to be mad at some guy murdered by police and the protesters upset by the situation. It is impossible to take a comment seriously with this.
TrackerFF 4mo ago
Not American either, but in the US many schools use/used standardized admission tests (SAT/ACT) on top of things like HS GPA/grades. There are many countries, especially in Europe, where entrance/admission tests are not a thing.
- schnitzelstoat 4mo ago
  Yeah, in England only certain universities like Oxford and certain subjects like Mathematics have separate entrance exams. That said, the Sixth Form exams are mostly standardised with only a few different exam boards for the entire country, so the Sixth Form grades end up being something akin to standardised tests anyway.
frollogaston 4mo ago
They look at high school transcripts and the application essays. I don't know how they decide based on those.
mywittyname 4mo ago
It varies by school. I went to a (low ranking) state engineering school and it was guaranteed entry if a prospect met the following criteria: - Had high school diploma (or equivalent). - Resident of the state for >6 months (student or one parent). - ACT score of something like 21. With provisional admission granted to students with scores below, until they completed all first year engineering courses with a B or better. So likely they just dropped the concept of provisional admission. All that did was open up classes for registration a week later to ensure other students were able to get their preferred class openings. Provisional had to take the scrap classes, like the four-hour, once a week Calc class on Friday night.
zdragnar 4mo ago
> how did admissions work without test scores? They look at "life experience" factors. Grades, of course, but also extracurricular activities such as school clubs, volunteering, activism, socioeconomic background and so forth. The aim was to include as many varieties of these factors as possible in the student population to boost diversity without directly referencing skin color (which would be illegal). There's a lot of antipathy towards standardized tests as things that disadvantage kids who don't test well, despite it being much cheaper and less time intensive to prepare for the test than it is to join a bunch of clubs and spend your weekends volunteering. It turns out that removing the standardized testing requirement led to a lot of students wasting their money on courses that they weren't at all prepared to take.
greenchair 4mo ago
Excellent question. Sorry that's not allowed. DEI is the name of the game.
- logicalmind 4mo ago
  I'm curious as to what you're implying with the DEI comment. It is often used to imply that white people are being disadvantaged in favor of minorities. But I highly suggest you take look at the demographics of the standardized test scores. Heck, take a look at the demographics of any of the top schools in the country. Berkeley included. Many of the school groups, business, clubs, etc. wouldn't have any white people in them if it wasn't a DEI requirement. Source, my daughter is a junior at Berkeley.
insane_dreamer 4mo ago
Primarily your high school GPA, the average of your grades across 4 years of high school. Which arguably is a better indicator than a single test that you can test for. The problem is if you have a high school with low standards you're getting A's when you didn't deserve them.

I'm not American so maybe I am missing some context. But how did admissions work without test scores?

36733883 4mo ago

[flagged]

torben-friis 4mo ago
>We used a vibes based system based on how compelling a sob story you could concoct whilst staying on the good side of fraud. Besides lost meritocracy, that is accidentally filtering for ability and willingness to manipulate others emotionally. Which feels really scary.
- Forgeties79 4mo ago
  Honestly I don’t believe a thing they’re saying. Just look at the demographics of any Ivy League school and you’ll see it can’t be true
  - throwawy33z 4mo ago
    My kid applied to Brown and others and the prep company we hired ($150/hr) spent more time going through the "sob story" the parent talked about than any other requirement (kids scores are to be fair quite decent already).
    - Forgeties79 4mo ago
      I’m not saying that it’s dumb money to go with a sob story college admission essay, I just don’t think they’re being truthful with their experience. It reads like someone lifted a comment from /r/conservative about what they think the admissions process is.
watwut 4mo ago
Somehow majority of Ivy League students don't have those sob stories and did not had for last years either?
Forgeties79 4mo ago
Your comment sounds vibes-based
- plagiarist 4mo ago
  It sounds like yet another far-right racist spreading misinformation under a randomly generated username. "Anno Floyd," fuck's sake, they have a severe brainworm infection to be mad at some guy murdered by police and the protesters upset by the situation. It is impossible to take a comment seriously with this.

TrackerFF 4mo ago

Not American either, but in the US many schools use/used standardized admission tests (SAT/ACT) on top of things like HS GPA/grades. There are many countries, especially in Europe, where entrance/admission tests are not a thing.

schnitzelstoat 4mo ago
Yeah, in England only certain universities like Oxford and certain subjects like Mathematics have separate entrance exams. That said, the Sixth Form exams are mostly standardised with only a few different exam boards for the entire country, so the Sixth Form grades end up being something akin to standardised tests anyway.

frollogaston 4mo ago

They look at high school transcripts and the application essays. I don't know how they decide based on those.

mywittyname 4mo ago

It varies by school. I went to a (low ranking) state engineering school and it was guaranteed entry if a prospect met the following criteria: - Had high school diploma (or equivalent). - Resident of the state for >6 months (student or one parent). - ACT score of something like 21. With provisional admission granted to students with scores below, until they completed all first year engineering courses with a B or better. So likely they just dropped the concept of provisional admission. All that did was open up classes for registration a week later to ensure other students were able to get their preferred class openings. Provisional had to take the scrap classes, like the four-hour, once a week Calc class on Friday night.

zdragnar 4mo ago

> how did admissions work without test scores? They look at "life experience" factors. Grades, of course, but also extracurricular activities such as school clubs, volunteering, activism, socioeconomic background and so forth. The aim was to include as many varieties of these factors as possible in the student population to boost diversity without directly referencing skin color (which would be illegal). There's a lot of antipathy towards standardized tests as things that disadvantage kids who don't test well, despite it being much cheaper and less time intensive to prepare for the test than it is to join a bunch of clubs and spend your weekends volunteering. It turns out that removing the standardized testing requirement led to a lot of students wasting their money on courses that they weren't at all prepared to take.

greenchair 4mo ago

Excellent question. Sorry that's not allowed. DEI is the name of the game.

logicalmind 4mo ago
I'm curious as to what you're implying with the DEI comment. It is often used to imply that white people are being disadvantaged in favor of minorities. But I highly suggest you take look at the demographics of the standardized test scores. Heck, take a look at the demographics of any of the top schools in the country. Berkeley included. Many of the school groups, business, clubs, etc. wouldn't have any white people in them if it wasn't a DEI requirement. Source, my daughter is a junior at Berkeley.

insane_dreamer 4mo ago

Primarily your high school GPA, the average of your grades across 4 years of high school. Which arguably is a better indicator than a single test that you can test for. The problem is if you have a high school with low standards you're getting A's when you didn't deserve them.