5 ms·

‘If we stop testing right now, we’d have very few cases, if any’ - Trump on COVID19

by mapontosevenths 4mo ago

billfor 4mo ago
[flagged]
- nancyminusone 4mo ago
  Sure, I'll grow up and listen to riffs about how inhaling bleach fumes "gets in the lungs and does a tremendous number" or being exposed to a "very powerful light" are thought by same man above as a potential remedy for same disease with 100% seriousness.
  - stldev 4mo ago
    Hey now! The man is _acing_ the multitude of cognitive tests that doctors keep giving him.
  - lostmsu 4mo ago
    > being exposed to a "very powerful light" Isn't ultraviolet sanitization a thing? Are you sure this quote isn't another bit taken out of context that would further prove the point?
    - nancyminusone 4mo ago
      He did not tell anyone to do these things nor do I claim he did. He did ask his staff to "look into" whether either of these sanitation methods "could be used inside the human body", which is a bit like if I asked my doctor if I could eat laundry soap and shampoo instead of showering and doing laundry. The very fact that these ideas exist inside a US president's skull is VERY SAD. THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER.
      - lostmsu 4mo ago
        Again, no quotes. But even as-is the idea of using ultraviolet to disinfect internal surfaces is not bonkers to any degree. Like I could see it working for nasal disinfection. In fact that's so obvious, that given you get very sad that someone else could even consider that tells me that you don't really know what you are talking about. Ironically, unlike Trump. Won't comment on the bleach one without a quote though.
        nancyminusone 4mo ago
        have a read for yourself: https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-31/ https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/re... As for me, I don't think you need a phd to read the warning stickers on bleach and isoproponal which say "do not injest" [2] [3] or warnings on germicidal lamps that say "do not expose to eyes or skin" [4]. If you do or have otherwise hidden knowledge why these should be ignored, say so. [2] https://www.thecloroxcompany.com/wp-content/uploads/cloroxregular-bleach12015-06-12.pdf https://www.thecloroxcompany.com/wp-content/uploads/cloroxre... [3] https://www.fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=AC423830040&productDescription=ISOPROPANOL+P.A.+4LT&vendorId=VN00033901&countryCode=US&language=en https://www.fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=AC423830040&... [4] https://www.mscdirect.com/knowledge-center/articles/safety-tips-using-germicidal-lamps https://www.mscdirect.com/knowledge-center/articles/safety-t... Next you will tell me that he isnt talking about UVC lamps, and I'll have to admit he speaks so vaguely that you can interpert his own words as almost anything.
        lostmsu 4mo ago
        Why do I have to present evidence for something I'm not claiming? Your response fits the picture drawn by the comment on out of context. > As for me, I don't think you need a phd to read the warning stickers on bleach and isoproponal which say "do not injest" Yes, but you need more brainpower to understand that these warnings are for specific products and can't be generalized without research. The concept that dangerous substances are widely used in medicine in right quantities with right delivery methods is rather well known, and since you don't appear to grasp the connection after multiple comments alluding to it... well, that doesn't paint your opinion about Trump in a good light.
- mapontosevenths 4mo ago
  I mean, they keep defending him and bending over backwards to behave as if he doesn't REALLY mean the things he says. Then a few weeks or months later, just as a giant catastrophe is looming, he cuts of our only means to track the disaster. This isn't a fluke, and it's not a series of unrelated coincidences. It's literally his world view. Trump is a huge fan of Norman Peale, who wrote a famous book about the power of positive thinking. The book is self help garbage that isn't based in fact, and offers terrible advice that basically boils down to "ignore your problems, pretend they aren't real, and imagine that you're better at everything than you actually are." Sound like the ruling principles of anyone you know? “make a true estimate of your own ability, then raise it 10 per cent.” [0] - Peale “I still remember [Peale’s] sermons,” Trump told the Iowa Family Leadership Summit in July. “You could listen to him all day long. And when you left the church, you were disappointed it was over. He was the greatest guy.” [0] - Trump [0] https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/10/donald-trump-2016-norman-vincent-peale-213220/ https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/10/donald-trump...
- mapontosevenths 4mo ago
  To address the actual substance though: He was wrong about the facts as well. He's always wrong, that's why we jump on him. Not because he's bad at saying it, because what he's saying is almost always a giant lie based on his ostrich modeled positive thinking attitude. If we ignore just the number of tests and instead look at number of tests per positive test during that time period guess what? The US was still in the top 20%. Meaning we actually had more cases, and it had nothing to do with the amount of testing we were doing. It had to do with us opening up faster and taking fewer precautions than other nations as a whole. Simply put, we had more as a percentage but that didn't align with his spin. Below is a link to the actual data. Use the slider to set it to June 15th, 2020 (when he said this). The US had 25 tests per positive case, which left us ranked alongside nations like Bosnia and Mozambique while nations that took it more seriously like New Zealand had over 8,000 tests per positive result. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/tests-per-confirmed-case-daily-smoothed?time=2020-06-13 https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/tests-per-confirmed-case-...
- chimprich 4mo ago
  > it is a very common problem on the left -- taking the words literally and out of context This is a very common problem on the right -- whatever Trump says gets constantly reinterpreted into something more favourable. This wasn't out of context. It was part of a broader and systematic attempt to play down the pandemic. He had multiple opportunities to clarify what he meant, and declined. When explicitly asked if the "slow the testing down" remarks were a joke, Trump said "I don't kid. Let me just tell you. Let me make it clear." He then kept repeating the argument in subsequent tweets on 23 June: "Cases are going up in the U.S. because we are testing far more... With smaller testing we would show fewer cases!" > Grow up. Another common problem on the right -- argument by insult.

‘If we stop testing right now, we’d have very few cases, if any’ - Trump on COVID19

billfor 4mo ago

[flagged]

nancyminusone 4mo ago
Sure, I'll grow up and listen to riffs about how inhaling bleach fumes "gets in the lungs and does a tremendous number" or being exposed to a "very powerful light" are thought by same man above as a potential remedy for same disease with 100% seriousness.
- stldev 4mo ago
  Hey now! The man is _acing_ the multitude of cognitive tests that doctors keep giving him.
- lostmsu 4mo ago
  > being exposed to a "very powerful light" Isn't ultraviolet sanitization a thing? Are you sure this quote isn't another bit taken out of context that would further prove the point?
  - nancyminusone 4mo ago
    He did not tell anyone to do these things nor do I claim he did. He did ask his staff to "look into" whether either of these sanitation methods "could be used inside the human body", which is a bit like if I asked my doctor if I could eat laundry soap and shampoo instead of showering and doing laundry. The very fact that these ideas exist inside a US president's skull is VERY SAD. THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER.
    - lostmsu 4mo ago
      Again, no quotes. But even as-is the idea of using ultraviolet to disinfect internal surfaces is not bonkers to any degree. Like I could see it working for nasal disinfection. In fact that's so obvious, that given you get very sad that someone else could even consider that tells me that you don't really know what you are talking about. Ironically, unlike Trump. Won't comment on the bleach one without a quote though.
      - nancyminusone 4mo ago
        have a read for yourself: https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-31/ https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/re... As for me, I don't think you need a phd to read the warning stickers on bleach and isoproponal which say "do not injest" [2] [3] or warnings on germicidal lamps that say "do not expose to eyes or skin" [4]. If you do or have otherwise hidden knowledge why these should be ignored, say so. [2] https://www.thecloroxcompany.com/wp-content/uploads/cloroxregular-bleach12015-06-12.pdf https://www.thecloroxcompany.com/wp-content/uploads/cloroxre... [3] https://www.fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=AC423830040&productDescription=ISOPROPANOL+P.A.+4LT&vendorId=VN00033901&countryCode=US&language=en https://www.fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=AC423830040&... [4] https://www.mscdirect.com/knowledge-center/articles/safety-tips-using-germicidal-lamps https://www.mscdirect.com/knowledge-center/articles/safety-t... Next you will tell me that he isnt talking about UVC lamps, and I'll have to admit he speaks so vaguely that you can interpert his own words as almost anything.
        lostmsu 4mo ago
        Why do I have to present evidence for something I'm not claiming? Your response fits the picture drawn by the comment on out of context. > As for me, I don't think you need a phd to read the warning stickers on bleach and isoproponal which say "do not injest" Yes, but you need more brainpower to understand that these warnings are for specific products and can't be generalized without research. The concept that dangerous substances are widely used in medicine in right quantities with right delivery methods is rather well known, and since you don't appear to grasp the connection after multiple comments alluding to it... well, that doesn't paint your opinion about Trump in a good light.
mapontosevenths 4mo ago
I mean, they keep defending him and bending over backwards to behave as if he doesn't REALLY mean the things he says. Then a few weeks or months later, just as a giant catastrophe is looming, he cuts of our only means to track the disaster. This isn't a fluke, and it's not a series of unrelated coincidences. It's literally his world view. Trump is a huge fan of Norman Peale, who wrote a famous book about the power of positive thinking. The book is self help garbage that isn't based in fact, and offers terrible advice that basically boils down to "ignore your problems, pretend they aren't real, and imagine that you're better at everything than you actually are." Sound like the ruling principles of anyone you know? “make a true estimate of your own ability, then raise it 10 per cent.” [0] - Peale “I still remember [Peale’s] sermons,” Trump told the Iowa Family Leadership Summit in July. “You could listen to him all day long. And when you left the church, you were disappointed it was over. He was the greatest guy.” [0] - Trump [0] https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/10/donald-trump-2016-norman-vincent-peale-213220/ https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/10/donald-trump...
mapontosevenths 4mo ago
To address the actual substance though: He was wrong about the facts as well. He's always wrong, that's why we jump on him. Not because he's bad at saying it, because what he's saying is almost always a giant lie based on his ostrich modeled positive thinking attitude. If we ignore just the number of tests and instead look at number of tests per positive test during that time period guess what? The US was still in the top 20%. Meaning we actually had more cases, and it had nothing to do with the amount of testing we were doing. It had to do with us opening up faster and taking fewer precautions than other nations as a whole. Simply put, we had more as a percentage but that didn't align with his spin. Below is a link to the actual data. Use the slider to set it to June 15th, 2020 (when he said this). The US had 25 tests per positive case, which left us ranked alongside nations like Bosnia and Mozambique while nations that took it more seriously like New Zealand had over 8,000 tests per positive result. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/tests-per-confirmed-case-daily-smoothed?time=2020-06-13 https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/tests-per-confirmed-case-...
chimprich 4mo ago
> it is a very common problem on the left -- taking the words literally and out of context This is a very common problem on the right -- whatever Trump says gets constantly reinterpreted into something more favourable. This wasn't out of context. It was part of a broader and systematic attempt to play down the pandemic. He had multiple opportunities to clarify what he meant, and declined. When explicitly asked if the "slow the testing down" remarks were a joke, Trump said "I don't kid. Let me just tell you. Let me make it clear." He then kept repeating the argument in subsequent tweets on 23 June: "Cases are going up in the U.S. because we are testing far more... With smaller testing we would show fewer cases!" > Grow up. Another common problem on the right -- argument by insult.