4 ms·

> to more performant runtimes and architectures in response to operational concerns at scale, which have a tenuous link to language The runtime performance and

> to more performant runtimes and architectures in response to operational concerns at scale, which have a tenuous link to language The runtime performance and the language are deeply linked. None of the dynamically typed runtimes you mention are actually performance competitive with JVM languages.

DoesntMatter22 4mo ago
They don’t really need to be though. They take far fewer tokens and are still faster to develop with
asa400 4mo ago
They absolutely are. Maybe not if the only thing you’re benchmarking is something completely CPU bound like signal processing/math, but they’re definitely competitive for tons of real use cases.
shakna 4mo ago
Luajit and SBCL are very much performance competitive with the JVM? Why do you say that they're not? Random example benchmark: https://madnight.github.io/benchmarksgame/lisp.html https://madnight.github.io/benchmarksgame/lisp.html
- igouy 4mo ago
  That's someone's 8 year old mirror of the benchmarks game website. https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/performance/fannkuchredux.html https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/...
  - shakna 4mo ago
    Huh. And after eight years, SBCL and Java are side by side, still.
    - igouy 4mo ago
      > Huh. The hardware changed. The way measurements were made changed. https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/how-programs-are-measured.html https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/... The Java version changed. The SBCL version changed. > side by side You'd have to say what you mean by that.
      - shakna 4mo ago
        > You'd have to say what you mean by that. They appear, literally, side by side, in the list. That is, they were competitive eight years ago. They are still competitive today.
        igouy 4mo ago
        By design, the 8 year old page you linked presented Lisp measurements side-by-side against Java measurements (by excluding the other programs). There's overlap across most of the different language implementations: https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/box-plot-summary-charts.html#chart-fastest-elapsed https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/...
  - kscarlet 4mo ago
    These mean nothing. The C/C++ implementations use SIMD intrinsic while Lisp doesn't (it should have used sb-simd).
    - igouy 4mo ago
      > The C/C++ implementations use SIMD intrinsic Except when they don't. https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/program/spectralnorm-gcc-3.html https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/... https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/program/nbody-gpp-3.html https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/... https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/program/fannkuchredux-gcc-5.html https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/...

DoesntMatter22 4mo ago

They don’t really need to be though. They take far fewer tokens and are still faster to develop with

asa400 4mo ago

They absolutely are. Maybe not if the only thing you’re benchmarking is something completely CPU bound like signal processing/math, but they’re definitely competitive for tons of real use cases.

shakna 4mo ago

Luajit and SBCL are very much performance competitive with the JVM? Why do you say that they're not? Random example benchmark: https://madnight.github.io/benchmarksgame/lisp.html https://madnight.github.io/benchmarksgame/lisp.html

igouy 4mo ago
That's someone's 8 year old mirror of the benchmarks game website. https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/performance/fannkuchredux.html https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/...
- shakna 4mo ago
  Huh. And after eight years, SBCL and Java are side by side, still.
  - igouy 4mo ago
    > Huh. The hardware changed. The way measurements were made changed. https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/how-programs-are-measured.html https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/... The Java version changed. The SBCL version changed. > side by side You'd have to say what you mean by that.
    - shakna 4mo ago
      > You'd have to say what you mean by that. They appear, literally, side by side, in the list. That is, they were competitive eight years ago. They are still competitive today.
      - igouy 4mo ago
        By design, the 8 year old page you linked presented Lisp measurements side-by-side against Java measurements (by excluding the other programs). There's overlap across most of the different language implementations: https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/box-plot-summary-charts.html#chart-fastest-elapsed https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/...
- kscarlet 4mo ago
  These mean nothing. The C/C++ implementations use SIMD intrinsic while Lisp doesn't (it should have used sb-simd).
  - igouy 4mo ago
    > The C/C++ implementations use SIMD intrinsic Except when they don't. https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/program/spectralnorm-gcc-3.html https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/... https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/program/nbody-gpp-3.html https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/... https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/program/fannkuchredux-gcc-5.html https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/...