7 ms·

Justin.tv Is Turning Porn Queries Into Cash

35 points by vaksel 18y ago

fallentimes 18y ago
While it's cool to see them trying out some unconventional ways of monetization, I have a feeling this won't last for very long.
- mikeyur 18y ago
  There will probably be some complaints from parents or some being redirected to porn sites, but what do you expect? If parents are so offended they should talk to their child about searching for porn on the internet rather than complaining. If some kid turns 'safe search' off in google and types in 'porn' - will the parents get mad at google?
  - alaskamiller 18y ago
    Yeah, I wasn't aware if I typed in xxx at Google they now wait 5 seconds and send me to a porn site automatically.
    - mikeyur 18y ago
      They do if you're feeling lucky.
      - alaskamiller 18y ago
        User looks up xxx on Justin.tv for xxx on Justin.tv User looks up xxx on Google for xxx The intent is different and the auto-redirect, even at 5 seconds, is troubling.
        jrockway 18y ago
        The intent, when searching for porn on Justin.tv, is presumably to find "xxx" "channels". Being redirected to porn is exactly what the user desires, since that's what he searched for.
  - jonursenbach 18y ago
    When was the last time a parent actually talked to their child instead of complaining about it being someonelse's problem?
    - anewaccountname 18y ago
      I'm pretty sure we only get to hear the ones that complain.
  - fallentimes 18y ago
    Were those rhetorical questions? Not sure where you derived them, but my only point was: usually when enough outraged people are outraged someone/some company gives in. Unfortunate, but true. Personally, I think it's a great idea.
- emmett 18y ago
  FYI - this isn't a method of monetization. This is a way of policing our community, by preventing people from searching for and finding porn on our site. Secondly, actual users of our site have not complained, except for a few of our mods who say it makes it harder for them to find bad channels and flag them. So it's likely to last quite a while, since it's very successful in its goal.
  - fallentimes 18y ago
    Gotcha. If Techcrunch had included your guys' comment from the start it would have cleared everything up.
jackowayed 18y ago
This is awesome. People who want porn get porn. People who want money (ie Justin.tv) get money. Unfortunately, there are definitely issues. Some 8-year-old kid is going to search for the awesome new channel about secant that everyone in 3rd grade is talking about. Since the c is next to the x, he's going to accidentally type "sex" instead of "sec". 5 seconds later, he says "mommy, what is that?", and 10 seconds later Justin.tv has a very, very angry parent on their hands. Ok, maybe that's a little unrealistic. But people are going to complain about it.
- Frocer 18y ago
  Good thing I didn't learn secant until high school -- in which my typo would turn into a pleasant surprise
- evdawg 18y ago
  It's not up to Justin.tv to ask for an age: it's up to the site that actually displays said pornographic content. It's their business and their responsibility. Btw, after trying out the redirect, there is in fact no "pornographic" material on the entry page. EDIT: this comment was not meant to be a reply to your comment, jackowayed. (oops! sorry.)
- thwarted 18y ago
  And they could hit the t key a little too soon also and end up with a demo video on using a sextant. The educational possibilities of typos are endless! Although, I wouldn't be surprised if sextant demo videos get caught in some web filter.
- emmett 18y ago
  You'd think they would, but we've been running this for a long time already and other than this silly kerfluffle, there haven't really been complaints. And believe me, our users love to complain (that's why we love our users!)
rms 18y ago
From another post here, I am absolutely amazed that a search for xxx or sex on Google takes you to flash video based full length hardcore porn. I didn't realize it was that easy these days. What Justin.tv is doing is no different or worse than Google. I would expect Justin.tv is banned by every parental filter anyways.
- jackowayed 18y ago
  They don't need to be banned. It's a redirect. So as long as the actual porn site is blocked, Justin.tv doesn't need to be. Normal Justin.tv is fine, and if someone does get redirected to porn, the filter should grab it there when it tries to load hot-porn.com or whatever.
  - Dilpil 18y ago
    Something tells me that the people who run porn censoring groups won't follow your logic.
- jonknee 18y ago
  Google isn't getting paid for it. This would be like treating a porn search as an automatic AdWords click. (I have no problem with it either, I just don't see a comparison to it with Google. Google doesn't ban porn, doesn't redirect, etc.)
holdenpage 18y ago
I really don't see any issue with this quite honestly. If a parent has an issue then either talk to your kid about NOT searching for porn or simply block the site.
- kajecounterhack 18y ago
  Seriously I read somewhere that someone complained about the word "Sexy" turning up a porn result. Is that over the top? Maybe. But think about who looks up the word "Sexy" on a live video stream... I think they're on the right track in some way. Well, I don't necessarily think they're doing the right thing like this, but certainly if you have moral qualms with it, feel free to not use their service. I'm not sure this is a reason to stop using their service. Still, I think it might be better if maybe they had a button that said "Yes, redirect me" instead of only waiting five (only five?) seconds. Or, if Justin.tv is really using this to keep bad content off their site, why don't they block those terms completely? It's not like redirecting users to a porn site is the best alternative...not to mention all this bad press.
Mystalic 18y ago
It just screams of desperation. It may make sense, but do you think they'll be able to keep their community this way?
- justin 18y ago
  Yes, because we only redirect people who are searching for porn, and those people aren't actually part of the community.
  - Mystalic 18y ago
    Okay, here's how I see it, Justin: You have forever tied the reputation and business of Justin.tv to porn. It doesn't matter if you host it or not, it doesn't matter if you warn users, you are forever associated with a market that millions of advertisers, investors, and users are adverse to. The TechCrunch porn article is already beginning to appear in search results - how long until any search for your website has articles about you and porn on it? And how long will casual users watch until they bounce? It screams desperation because it isn't a business model, it's a stop-gap. The streaming video websites, including you, have yet to prove that you can make sustainable revenues that trump costs, which is the point of every business on the planet. Once you realize that you've tarnished the reputation of Justin.tv forever and that it will create an artificial barrier to growth, it will be too late. At least, that's how I see it.
    - fallentimes 18y ago
      >You have forever tied the reputation and business of Justin.tv to porn. So sensational. What percentage of users are even aware of this feature? >It screams desperation because it isn't a business model, it's a stop-gap. That's a straw man argument. No one said it's a business model. >Once you realize that you've tarnished the reputation of Justin.tv forever Now that's hyperbole. While you're certainly entitled to your own opinion don't you think you're overreacting a little? What would your reaction be if they actually had porn on their site?
    - justin 18y ago
muon 18y ago
It's the natural thing to do but at what cost?
- jrockway 18y ago
  The users that search for porn get porn. Justin.tv gets money. I fail to see how this is a poor business model. Oh yeah, sex is evil. I get it.
mattmaroon 18y ago
"the site should really include a page confirming that the user is over 18 before redirecting them" Yes, because 16 year old boys who searched for porn are going to click no when asked if they're over 18.
- allenbrunson 18y ago
  The redirect he was suggesting wasn't to thwart 16-year-old boys from finding porn. It would be to make sure you don't accidentally stumble into something you don't want via a fat-fingered search query.
  - deleted 18y ago
    [deleted]
  - mattmaroon 18y ago
    I'm going to hope that pun (porn and xxx being fat-fingered) was unintentional.
    - axod 18y ago
      one handed typing can be hard :/
- anuraggoel 18y ago
  Wouldn't such a confirmation be needed purely for legal reasons?
  - mattmaroon 18y ago
    I'm not a lawyer, but my guess would be no since it's merely a link to a third party. I'd guess the third party has the responsibility to ask that question. On the other hand, I'm not a lawyer.
    - anuraggoel 18y ago
      On the third-party point, I think that's the reason they say: "(there seems to be no such confirmation found on at least some of the redirected porn sites)."
larryfreeman 18y ago
The fact that this story is so controversial (read the comments on TechCrunch) really shows that Justin.TV will probably stop doing this soon. Interesting idea to give the adult searchers what they really want. The problem is that adult content is still too taboo for many folks.
- evdawg 18y ago
  I would barely call some TechCrunch comments "controversy". That site has some serious youtube-style lowest-denominator-of-society commenting going on. The troll to constructive comment ratio is like 9:1.
  - larryfreeman 18y ago
    In my view and in my experience, many of the comments on this particular article do represent the general public out there. The roughly same comments are found in this thread on Hacker News. We are unfortunately still living in a time when many people are not open minded. -Larry
emmett 18y ago
Techcrunch didn't include the comment on the story we sent them, but here it is: Justin.tv uses a variety of common tools to effectively reduce the amount of inappropriate content on the site including: community-based reporting, community admins, chat moderation and redirecting sex-related search queries. Lets be clear, this isn't the magical solution for monetizing Web 2.0, these tools exclusively help us to improve the community experience on the site.
debt 18y ago
Does JTV really feel comfortable directing kids to porn? I am a fan of porn, but I'd feel uncomfortable having a hand in making porn so easily accessible to kids.
- likpok 18y ago
  If someone is searching for porn or xxx or whatever is flagged, then they certainly can get it elsewhere on the internet. Justin.tv is not directing them to it, they would have already found out how to find it.
  - debt 18y ago
    http://www.justin.tv/search?q=porn&commit=Search&section= http://www.justin.tv/search?q=porn&commit=Search&sec... Justin.tv directs me to a porn site. It's wrong to just blindly forward people to porn when most of them are younger kids.

35 points by vaksel 18y ago

While it's cool to see them trying out some unconventional ways of monetization, I have a feeling this won't last for very long.

mikeyur 18y ago
There will probably be some complaints from parents or some being redirected to porn sites, but what do you expect? If parents are so offended they should talk to their child about searching for porn on the internet rather than complaining. If some kid turns 'safe search' off in google and types in 'porn' - will the parents get mad at google?
- alaskamiller 18y ago
  Yeah, I wasn't aware if I typed in xxx at Google they now wait 5 seconds and send me to a porn site automatically.
  - mikeyur 18y ago
    They do if you're feeling lucky.
    - alaskamiller 18y ago
      User looks up xxx on Justin.tv for xxx on Justin.tv User looks up xxx on Google for xxx The intent is different and the auto-redirect, even at 5 seconds, is troubling.
      - jrockway 18y ago
        The intent, when searching for porn on Justin.tv, is presumably to find "xxx" "channels". Being redirected to porn is exactly what the user desires, since that's what he searched for.
- jonursenbach 18y ago
  When was the last time a parent actually talked to their child instead of complaining about it being someonelse's problem?
  - anewaccountname 18y ago
    I'm pretty sure we only get to hear the ones that complain.
- fallentimes 18y ago
  Were those rhetorical questions? Not sure where you derived them, but my only point was: usually when enough outraged people are outraged someone/some company gives in. Unfortunate, but true. Personally, I think it's a great idea.
emmett 18y ago
FYI - this isn't a method of monetization. This is a way of policing our community, by preventing people from searching for and finding porn on our site. Secondly, actual users of our site have not complained, except for a few of our mods who say it makes it harder for them to find bad channels and flag them. So it's likely to last quite a while, since it's very successful in its goal.
- fallentimes 18y ago
  Gotcha. If Techcrunch had included your guys' comment from the start it would have cleared everything up.

jackowayed 18y ago

This is awesome. People who want porn get porn. People who want money (ie Justin.tv) get money. Unfortunately, there are definitely issues. Some 8-year-old kid is going to search for the awesome new channel about secant that everyone in 3rd grade is talking about. Since the c is next to the x, he's going to accidentally type "sex" instead of "sec". 5 seconds later, he says "mommy, what is that?", and 10 seconds later Justin.tv has a very, very angry parent on their hands. Ok, maybe that's a little unrealistic. But people are going to complain about it.

Frocer 18y ago
Good thing I didn't learn secant until high school -- in which my typo would turn into a pleasant surprise
evdawg 18y ago
It's not up to Justin.tv to ask for an age: it's up to the site that actually displays said pornographic content. It's their business and their responsibility. Btw, after trying out the redirect, there is in fact no "pornographic" material on the entry page. EDIT: this comment was not meant to be a reply to your comment, jackowayed. (oops! sorry.)
thwarted 18y ago
And they could hit the t key a little too soon also and end up with a demo video on using a sextant. The educational possibilities of typos are endless! Although, I wouldn't be surprised if sextant demo videos get caught in some web filter.
emmett 18y ago
You'd think they would, but we've been running this for a long time already and other than this silly kerfluffle, there haven't really been complaints. And believe me, our users love to complain (that's why we love our users!)

rms 18y ago

From another post here, I am absolutely amazed that a search for xxx or sex on Google takes you to flash video based full length hardcore porn. I didn't realize it was that easy these days. What Justin.tv is doing is no different or worse than Google. I would expect Justin.tv is banned by every parental filter anyways.

jackowayed 18y ago
They don't need to be banned. It's a redirect. So as long as the actual porn site is blocked, Justin.tv doesn't need to be. Normal Justin.tv is fine, and if someone does get redirected to porn, the filter should grab it there when it tries to load hot-porn.com or whatever.
- Dilpil 18y ago
  Something tells me that the people who run porn censoring groups won't follow your logic.
jonknee 18y ago
Google isn't getting paid for it. This would be like treating a porn search as an automatic AdWords click. (I have no problem with it either, I just don't see a comparison to it with Google. Google doesn't ban porn, doesn't redirect, etc.)

holdenpage 18y ago

I really don't see any issue with this quite honestly. If a parent has an issue then either talk to your kid about NOT searching for porn or simply block the site.

kajecounterhack 18y ago
Seriously I read somewhere that someone complained about the word "Sexy" turning up a porn result. Is that over the top? Maybe. But think about who looks up the word "Sexy" on a live video stream... I think they're on the right track in some way. Well, I don't necessarily think they're doing the right thing like this, but certainly if you have moral qualms with it, feel free to not use their service. I'm not sure this is a reason to stop using their service. Still, I think it might be better if maybe they had a button that said "Yes, redirect me" instead of only waiting five (only five?) seconds. Or, if Justin.tv is really using this to keep bad content off their site, why don't they block those terms completely? It's not like redirecting users to a porn site is the best alternative...not to mention all this bad press.

Mystalic 18y ago

It just screams of desperation. It may make sense, but do you think they'll be able to keep their community this way?

justin 18y ago
Yes, because we only redirect people who are searching for porn, and those people aren't actually part of the community.
- Mystalic 18y ago
  Okay, here's how I see it, Justin: You have forever tied the reputation and business of Justin.tv to porn. It doesn't matter if you host it or not, it doesn't matter if you warn users, you are forever associated with a market that millions of advertisers, investors, and users are adverse to. The TechCrunch porn article is already beginning to appear in search results - how long until any search for your website has articles about you and porn on it? And how long will casual users watch until they bounce? It screams desperation because it isn't a business model, it's a stop-gap. The streaming video websites, including you, have yet to prove that you can make sustainable revenues that trump costs, which is the point of every business on the planet. Once you realize that you've tarnished the reputation of Justin.tv forever and that it will create an artificial barrier to growth, it will be too late. At least, that's how I see it.
  - fallentimes 18y ago
    >You have forever tied the reputation and business of Justin.tv to porn. So sensational. What percentage of users are even aware of this feature? >It screams desperation because it isn't a business model, it's a stop-gap. That's a straw man argument. No one said it's a business model. >Once you realize that you've tarnished the reputation of Justin.tv forever Now that's hyperbole. While you're certainly entitled to your own opinion don't you think you're overreacting a little? What would your reaction be if they actually had porn on their site?
  - justin 18y ago

muon 18y ago

It's the natural thing to do but at what cost?

jrockway 18y ago
The users that search for porn get porn. Justin.tv gets money. I fail to see how this is a poor business model. Oh yeah, sex is evil. I get it.

mattmaroon 18y ago

"the site should really include a page confirming that the user is over 18 before redirecting them" Yes, because 16 year old boys who searched for porn are going to click no when asked if they're over 18.

allenbrunson 18y ago
The redirect he was suggesting wasn't to thwart 16-year-old boys from finding porn. It would be to make sure you don't accidentally stumble into something you don't want via a fat-fingered search query.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
- mattmaroon 18y ago
  I'm going to hope that pun (porn and xxx being fat-fingered) was unintentional.
  - axod 18y ago
    one handed typing can be hard :/
anuraggoel 18y ago
Wouldn't such a confirmation be needed purely for legal reasons?
- mattmaroon 18y ago
  I'm not a lawyer, but my guess would be no since it's merely a link to a third party. I'd guess the third party has the responsibility to ask that question. On the other hand, I'm not a lawyer.
  - anuraggoel 18y ago
    On the third-party point, I think that's the reason they say: "(there seems to be no such confirmation found on at least some of the redirected porn sites)."

larryfreeman 18y ago

The fact that this story is so controversial (read the comments on TechCrunch) really shows that Justin.TV will probably stop doing this soon. Interesting idea to give the adult searchers what they really want. The problem is that adult content is still too taboo for many folks.

evdawg 18y ago
I would barely call some TechCrunch comments "controversy". That site has some serious youtube-style lowest-denominator-of-society commenting going on. The troll to constructive comment ratio is like 9:1.
- larryfreeman 18y ago
  In my view and in my experience, many of the comments on this particular article do represent the general public out there. The roughly same comments are found in this thread on Hacker News. We are unfortunately still living in a time when many people are not open minded. -Larry

emmett 18y ago

Techcrunch didn't include the comment on the story we sent them, but here it is: Justin.tv uses a variety of common tools to effectively reduce the amount of inappropriate content on the site including: community-based reporting, community admins, chat moderation and redirecting sex-related search queries. Lets be clear, this isn't the magical solution for monetizing Web 2.0, these tools exclusively help us to improve the community experience on the site.

debt 18y ago

Does JTV really feel comfortable directing kids to porn? I am a fan of porn, but I'd feel uncomfortable having a hand in making porn so easily accessible to kids.

likpok 18y ago
If someone is searching for porn or xxx or whatever is flagged, then they certainly can get it elsewhere on the internet. Justin.tv is not directing them to it, they would have already found out how to find it.
- debt 18y ago
  http://www.justin.tv/search?q=porn&commit=Search&section= http://www.justin.tv/search?q=porn&commit=Search&sec... Justin.tv directs me to a porn site. It's wrong to just blindly forward people to porn when most of them are younger kids.