5 ms·

Bernie Sanders. I mean, he's not always wrong, but he's, um, kind of enthusiastic about just taking stuff from those who have it, considerably more than the cu

Bernie Sanders. I mean, he's not always wrong, but he's, um, kind of enthusiastic about just taking stuff from those who have it, considerably more than the current understanding of private property (or even taxation) considers acceptable.

edbaskerville 5mo ago
I think the point is that they took our collective knowledge without asking and are selling it back to us. We should own a substantial portion of it. (Not sure if this is the right approach, but the general idea seems rather important.)
Jordan-117 5mo ago
The obvious counterargument is that the AI labs took virtually all human writing, imagery, music, etc., without regard for licensing or copyright. It's fair to ask what they owe back to the commons they built their models on (and which they are in some sense helping to destroy).
jotux 5mo ago
>kind of enthusiastic about just taking stuff from those who have it, considerably more than the current understanding of private property (or even taxation) considers acceptable. Funny how you can use that description for how AI companies used everything for training data.
- akramachamarei 5mo ago
  Can you? If the government decides to take another grand, that's money I can't use. If I publish a blog post about why I hate videogames, and an AI company trains a model on it, I still have my article, I still have the same number of people who could find it and care about it a particular amount. Maybe some of them will forgo reading my article because they got the same thing from the LLM, but the description of these two actions is not nearly the same. This is why intellectual "property" is a metaphor. Economists call this a nonrivalrous good. IP law seeks to make such things more rivalrous, FBOFW.
- scottyah 5mo ago
  "You wouldn't download a blog post"?
Aunche 5mo ago
Yet progressives say that he would be "moderate" in Europe.
- nyeah 5mo ago
  Why listen to US progressives' opinions about Europe? Ask Europeans.
- hagbard_c 5mo ago
  That was then but this is now and now American 'progressives' have caught up and in some cases out-'progressed' their European counterparts. There isn't anything 'moderate' about current American 'progressives'.
trismus 5mo ago
There were long ancestral lines of humans who were very very keen on not redistributing power for many generations. They were called kings. Cutting their heads off was the best thing to happen to society, ever. Take the long view. Our particular economic and ideological moment is not worth defending.
- shadowtree 5mo ago
  This is ahistoric drivel. China and Russia are simple examples of the fallout of "cutting king's heads". So awesome in China that they went straight back to a lifetime emperor now. The French Revolution and its fallout (communism, fascism) killed more humans than any other historic movement, triggering 2 world wars, including numerous genocides.
  - snake42 5mo ago
    Blaming an event that happened in 1789 for the first and second world wars seems incredibly far fetched. Maybe we should blame the aggressors who started the wars.
    - shadowtree 4mo ago
      Lernen Sie Geschichte! -- Fred Sinowatz

edbaskerville 5mo ago

I think the point is that they took our collective knowledge without asking and are selling it back to us. We should own a substantial portion of it. (Not sure if this is the right approach, but the general idea seems rather important.)

Jordan-117 5mo ago

The obvious counterargument is that the AI labs took virtually all human writing, imagery, music, etc., without regard for licensing or copyright. It's fair to ask what they owe back to the commons they built their models on (and which they are in some sense helping to destroy).

jotux 5mo ago

>kind of enthusiastic about just taking stuff from those who have it, considerably more than the current understanding of private property (or even taxation) considers acceptable. Funny how you can use that description for how AI companies used everything for training data.

akramachamarei 5mo ago
Can you? If the government decides to take another grand, that's money I can't use. If I publish a blog post about why I hate videogames, and an AI company trains a model on it, I still have my article, I still have the same number of people who could find it and care about it a particular amount. Maybe some of them will forgo reading my article because they got the same thing from the LLM, but the description of these two actions is not nearly the same. This is why intellectual "property" is a metaphor. Economists call this a nonrivalrous good. IP law seeks to make such things more rivalrous, FBOFW.
scottyah 5mo ago
"You wouldn't download a blog post"?

Aunche 5mo ago

Yet progressives say that he would be "moderate" in Europe.

nyeah 5mo ago
Why listen to US progressives' opinions about Europe? Ask Europeans.
hagbard_c 5mo ago
That was then but this is now and now American 'progressives' have caught up and in some cases out-'progressed' their European counterparts. There isn't anything 'moderate' about current American 'progressives'.

trismus 5mo ago

There were long ancestral lines of humans who were very very keen on not redistributing power for many generations. They were called kings. Cutting their heads off was the best thing to happen to society, ever. Take the long view. Our particular economic and ideological moment is not worth defending.

shadowtree 5mo ago
This is ahistoric drivel. China and Russia are simple examples of the fallout of "cutting king's heads". So awesome in China that they went straight back to a lifetime emperor now. The French Revolution and its fallout (communism, fascism) killed more humans than any other historic movement, triggering 2 world wars, including numerous genocides.
- snake42 5mo ago
  Blaming an event that happened in 1789 for the first and second world wars seems incredibly far fetched. Maybe we should blame the aggressors who started the wars.
  - shadowtree 4mo ago
    Lernen Sie Geschichte! -- Fred Sinowatz