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A 12B-sized model is a far cry from "frontier inference". That's more like DeepSeek V4 Pro territory which is a 1.6T model. Or for multi-modal models, Kimi 2.

A 12B-sized model is a far cry from "frontier inference". That's more like DeepSeek V4 Pro territory which is a 1.6T model. Or for multi-modal models, Kimi 2.6 which is 1T.

gen220 5mo ago
at risk of quoting myself... :) > By offering frontier inference closer to cost *and* open-sourcing everything that's sub-frontier It's two prongs! One prong is that their frontier inference pricing is significantly cheaper/closer-to-at-cost as Anthropic's. The subject of this thread is the other prong: offering compelling models that are sub-frontier and self-hostable. Self-hosting models and at-cost frontier models are the high-end and low-end disruptions, respectively, to Ant/OAI/etc.'s business models.
- echelon 5mo ago
  Google needs an anti-trust breakup about 10 years ago. They need one more than ever now. This is ridiculously anti-competitive.
  - airstrike 5mo ago
    This is literally competition
    - echelon 5mo ago
      1. Google is dumping on the market to weaken OpenAI and Anthropic. 2. Every time you search for Claude or ChatGPT, you get presented with an AdWords bidding war. 3. Google is deploying its models in Search, Docs/Drive/Office, YouTube, Chrome, ...
      - airstrike 5mo ago
        1. This isn't dumping 2. I'm not sure what this has to do with the case, unless you're arguing Google has an ads monopoly, in which case the best argument would likely not be that adwords lead to bidding wars because that just sounds like they're selling a product people really want to pay for 3. There's nothing criminal about being a very diversified business
boutell 5mo ago
You're right that it's not literally frontier. But like recent Qwen releases, it is a lot more capable than anybody thought models of this size could be a year ago, like capable enough to set a ceiling on what you can charge for AI for certain applications. Others still clearly justify a stronger model, but this trend may continue, etc.

A 12B-sized model is a far cry from "frontier inference". That's more like DeepSeek V4 Pro territory which is a 1.6T model. Or for multi-modal models, Kimi 2.6 which is 1T.

gen220 5mo ago

at risk of quoting myself... :) > By offering frontier inference closer to cost *and* open-sourcing everything that's sub-frontier It's two prongs! One prong is that their frontier inference pricing is significantly cheaper/closer-to-at-cost as Anthropic's. The subject of this thread is the other prong: offering compelling models that are sub-frontier and self-hostable. Self-hosting models and at-cost frontier models are the high-end and low-end disruptions, respectively, to Ant/OAI/etc.'s business models.

echelon 5mo ago
Google needs an anti-trust breakup about 10 years ago. They need one more than ever now. This is ridiculously anti-competitive.
- airstrike 5mo ago
  This is literally competition
  - echelon 5mo ago
    1. Google is dumping on the market to weaken OpenAI and Anthropic. 2. Every time you search for Claude or ChatGPT, you get presented with an AdWords bidding war. 3. Google is deploying its models in Search, Docs/Drive/Office, YouTube, Chrome, ...
    - airstrike 5mo ago
      1. This isn't dumping 2. I'm not sure what this has to do with the case, unless you're arguing Google has an ads monopoly, in which case the best argument would likely not be that adwords lead to bidding wars because that just sounds like they're selling a product people really want to pay for 3. There's nothing criminal about being a very diversified business

boutell 5mo ago

You're right that it's not literally frontier. But like recent Qwen releases, it is a lot more capable than anybody thought models of this size could be a year ago, like capable enough to set a ceiling on what you can charge for AI for certain applications. Others still clearly justify a stronger model, but this trend may continue, etc.