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I'm in my 40s now, and the number of times I've been brought into a startup suffering under the plague of 20-something founder's grandiose ideas of how things s

I'm in my 40s now, and the number of times I've been brought into a startup suffering under the plague of 20-something founder's grandiose ideas of how things should be done vs. the nearly 20 years of real world experience that says otherwise would surprise you. Youth might fuel the launch of your product, but experience will help it keep flying.

codewright 14y ago
I know the value of experience because I know what my code looked like 5 and 10 years ago. I also know how incredibly poor my judgment was back then compared to now. I can only imagine what 20 years will do for me. That's why I actively seek out more experience in candidates because I believe it'll make them more competent and sharp at what they do. Somebody with battle-scars is something a startup could really use. Most of my pre-startup experience is as a contractor/consultant.
- stcredzero 14y ago
  > Somebody with battle-scars is something a startup could really use. Most of my pre-startup experience is as a contractor/consultant. Lots of young engineers don't know how to interview. (In addition to being interviewed by young ones lately, I also realize how I've fucked it up back then.) Lots of them don't know how to listen. The vast majority don't know how much they don't know.
  - enjo 14y ago
    I also realize how I've fucked it up back then Really that's been the story of my 30's. A series of cringe-worthy realizations that I was not nearly as good at my job as I thought I was at 26.
- krakensden 14y ago
  I've worked with developers in their fifties- they're scary good.
  - codewright 14y ago
    As have I, but only when I was a contractor. I always looked forward to pairing up with the experienced engineers. I learned the most on those days.
  - jsaxton86 14y ago
    I've also worked with developers in their fifties who are awful. Age bias is awful, and I have worked with a lot of older developers who know their stuff and are extremely competent, but the idea that 25 years of experience automatically makes you a better programmer is wrong. Good developers are able to learn and adapt quickly, and often older developers can't do that.
    - reinhardt 14y ago
      No personal experience here but my gut feeling is that older developers are more likely to be closer to the one or the other extreme. The theory being that those who are average tend to move to middle/senior management, leaving behind those that are either brilliant hardcore hackers or incompetent clock punchers.
    - adrianhoward 14y ago
      I've also worked with developers in their fifties who are awful. Me to. And I've worked with devs in the 20s who are awful. And their 30s. And their 40s. And their 60s. I've also worked with great devs in all those age ranges. Proportions seem about the same to me. Good developers are able to learn and adapt quickly, and often older developers can't do that. I've not noticed a difference. I have noticed that it's harder to spot the folk in their 20s who don't learn and adapt quickly since folk in their 20s have to learn something to make any progress at all. Once that pressure is off and they've become fixated on Rails / C# / whatever they seem just as unlikely to change as any other age range. They just get fixated on the "cool" thing - so it takes longer to spot.
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
      - 14y ago
mortenjorck 14y ago
I've been meaning to write an article on this for awhile, but there's really no substitute for age diversity on a team. Having worked for the past year at a place with a fairly smooth gradient from just-out-of-school to used-COBOL-professionally, I can say from experience that it has been a benefit for both the older and younger employees. Of course, the key is still, as always, cultural fit. You have to have youngsters who are willing to take to heart a hard-learned lesson from a graybeard, and veteran devs who are willing to keep an open mind to a new technology espoused by the younger generation.

codewright 14y ago

I know the value of experience because I know what my code looked like 5 and 10 years ago. I also know how incredibly poor my judgment was back then compared to now. I can only imagine what 20 years will do for me. That's why I actively seek out more experience in candidates because I believe it'll make them more competent and sharp at what they do. Somebody with battle-scars is something a startup could really use. Most of my pre-startup experience is as a contractor/consultant.

stcredzero 14y ago
> Somebody with battle-scars is something a startup could really use. Most of my pre-startup experience is as a contractor/consultant. Lots of young engineers don't know how to interview. (In addition to being interviewed by young ones lately, I also realize how I've fucked it up back then.) Lots of them don't know how to listen. The vast majority don't know how much they don't know.
- enjo 14y ago
  I also realize how I've fucked it up back then Really that's been the story of my 30's. A series of cringe-worthy realizations that I was not nearly as good at my job as I thought I was at 26.
krakensden 14y ago
I've worked with developers in their fifties- they're scary good.
- codewright 14y ago
  As have I, but only when I was a contractor. I always looked forward to pairing up with the experienced engineers. I learned the most on those days.
- jsaxton86 14y ago
  I've also worked with developers in their fifties who are awful. Age bias is awful, and I have worked with a lot of older developers who know their stuff and are extremely competent, but the idea that 25 years of experience automatically makes you a better programmer is wrong. Good developers are able to learn and adapt quickly, and often older developers can't do that.
  - reinhardt 14y ago
    No personal experience here but my gut feeling is that older developers are more likely to be closer to the one or the other extreme. The theory being that those who are average tend to move to middle/senior management, leaving behind those that are either brilliant hardcore hackers or incompetent clock punchers.
  - adrianhoward 14y ago
    I've also worked with developers in their fifties who are awful. Me to. And I've worked with devs in the 20s who are awful. And their 30s. And their 40s. And their 60s. I've also worked with great devs in all those age ranges. Proportions seem about the same to me. Good developers are able to learn and adapt quickly, and often older developers can't do that. I've not noticed a difference. I have noticed that it's harder to spot the folk in their 20s who don't learn and adapt quickly since folk in their 20s have to learn something to make any progress at all. Once that pressure is off and they've become fixated on Rails / C# / whatever they seem just as unlikely to change as any other age range. They just get fixated on the "cool" thing - so it takes longer to spot.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
    - 14y ago

mortenjorck 14y ago

I've been meaning to write an article on this for awhile, but there's really no substitute for age diversity on a team. Having worked for the past year at a place with a fairly smooth gradient from just-out-of-school to used-COBOL-professionally, I can say from experience that it has been a benefit for both the older and younger employees. Of course, the key is still, as always, cultural fit. You have to have youngsters who are willing to take to heart a hard-learned lesson from a graybeard, and veteran devs who are willing to keep an open mind to a new technology espoused by the younger generation.