4 ms·

Take Action: LAPD Removed Crime Location Data. Here's Why It Matters

28 points by apwheele 4mo ago

nekusar 4mo ago
[flagged]
- gosub100 4mo ago
  It's not a coincidence. More crime means more votes. Create the problem and sell you the solution that's just out of reach. "$NEW_GUY's plan will take effect immediately after election. He will work tirelessly to solve $PROBLEM (we created), unlike $BAD_GUY (who promised the same thing 4 years ago), whose tired old policies are no good for $GEOGRAPHIC_AREA. Vote smart, vote $GOOD_GUY $YEAR. Paid for by the committee to elect $GOOD_GUY."
throawayonthe 4mo ago
sounds like a positive spotcrime.com seems to be one of those sensationalist media spreading paranoia. there are so many people wrongly believing cities to be dangerous, per-neighbourhood tracking can not be helping people's fears
- apwheele 4mo ago
  Spotcrime just allows you to sign up for email alerts to crime nearby an address of your choosing. I am generally of the mind even if it results in negative externalities, knowledge is good. So even if it on average increases fear of crime, knowing the reported crime nearby your home is a good thing.
  - Zigurd 4mo ago
    The quality of the data matters. Over-policed minority neighborhoods don't provide the quality of data that supports rational decision-making. LA has a lot of problems with quality of policing.
  - snapcaster 4mo ago
    "knowledge is good" is such a naive take. Trivial example: You only have knowledge of crimes committed by immigrants but zero knowledge of crimes committed by citizens. How is that good?
    - jvanderbot 4mo ago
      So, continue this train of thought - If only partial data is available, then no data should be available because the partial data might induce incorrect assumptions in the general populace. Apply this to: Vaccination / disease management Housing availability ("if they only know of these areas, will those areas become swamped and drive up prices?") Price of drugs / medical services, or even medical test results (how many more suicides "might" occur if someone gets a possible cancer diagnosis) Climate change or anything else. I think you'll find you're quickly concentrating knowledge dissemination into a central authority who decides what is "right" and that is much more dangerous than incomplete information.
      - Zigurd 4mo ago
        We're not talking about "partial data." We're talking about tendentious data that propagates existing known bias, produced by brutal problematic low quality policing. At the very least, people making apps based on crime location data need to acknowledge and flag such problems and inform their users of the dubiousness of LAPD and LASD data. Surveillance tech and cop tech generally don't contribute to society because of these problems. If you wouldn't trust RFK Jr. about vaccines, you should also be skeptical about what many PDs tell you. LAPD is just a particularly notorious example.
        jvanderbot 4mo ago
        > We're not talking about "partial data." You might change the subject away from partial data, but the comment I replied to _was_ talking about partial data, and my rebuttal _is_ about partial data and the judgement of whether that partial data is worth releasing based soley on how we imaging people might react to it. Have you read "The Unthinkable"? I wouldn't trust RFK Jr. about vaccines if I didn't trust his data. But establishing a body that was in charge of disseminating data about vaccines is in high likelihood going to be taken over by RFK Jr types. Such a body shouldn't exist. Such a body would write "Turtles all the way down." > "knowledge is good" is such a naive take. Trivial example: You only have knowledge of crimes committed by immigrants but zero knowledge of crimes committed by citizens. How is that good? That counter-logic is so fundamentally flawed b/c it rests exclusively on the prejudgement of others and prediction of their use of the data while "I", the good thinker, can determine that it is bad for "them" to have access to this data. That is just a very bad way to think and is precisely what RFK-types do all the time.
  - throawayonthe 4mo ago
    > even if it results in negative externalities, knowledge is good. i can respect[0] that, perhaps the data should be available in some form; but would regardless call 'crime alert emails' a disservice. [0]i'm skeptical of LAPD producing knowledge in this area, others have noted overpolicing etc. also this is tracking police activity/knowledge, not crimes directly (and tbf it's impossible for it to complete even with best effort)
ripberge 4mo ago
I just tried this site on my phone and it has an extremely ad invasive experience. Is this how the citizen app also gets its data?
anonymousiam 4mo ago
So the letter provides a list of five contacts for complaints about the policy. Notably missing from the list is Mayor Karen Bass, who may herself have had something to do with the policy change.

28 points by apwheele 4mo ago

nekusar 4mo ago

[flagged]

gosub100 4mo ago
It's not a coincidence. More crime means more votes. Create the problem and sell you the solution that's just out of reach. "$NEW_GUY's plan will take effect immediately after election. He will work tirelessly to solve $PROBLEM (we created), unlike $BAD_GUY (who promised the same thing 4 years ago), whose tired old policies are no good for $GEOGRAPHIC_AREA. Vote smart, vote $GOOD_GUY $YEAR. Paid for by the committee to elect $GOOD_GUY."

throawayonthe 4mo ago

sounds like a positive spotcrime.com seems to be one of those sensationalist media spreading paranoia. there are so many people wrongly believing cities to be dangerous, per-neighbourhood tracking can not be helping people's fears

apwheele 4mo ago
Spotcrime just allows you to sign up for email alerts to crime nearby an address of your choosing. I am generally of the mind even if it results in negative externalities, knowledge is good. So even if it on average increases fear of crime, knowing the reported crime nearby your home is a good thing.
- Zigurd 4mo ago
  The quality of the data matters. Over-policed minority neighborhoods don't provide the quality of data that supports rational decision-making. LA has a lot of problems with quality of policing.
- snapcaster 4mo ago
  "knowledge is good" is such a naive take. Trivial example: You only have knowledge of crimes committed by immigrants but zero knowledge of crimes committed by citizens. How is that good?
  - jvanderbot 4mo ago
    So, continue this train of thought - If only partial data is available, then no data should be available because the partial data might induce incorrect assumptions in the general populace. Apply this to: Vaccination / disease management Housing availability ("if they only know of these areas, will those areas become swamped and drive up prices?") Price of drugs / medical services, or even medical test results (how many more suicides "might" occur if someone gets a possible cancer diagnosis) Climate change or anything else. I think you'll find you're quickly concentrating knowledge dissemination into a central authority who decides what is "right" and that is much more dangerous than incomplete information.
    - Zigurd 4mo ago
      We're not talking about "partial data." We're talking about tendentious data that propagates existing known bias, produced by brutal problematic low quality policing. At the very least, people making apps based on crime location data need to acknowledge and flag such problems and inform their users of the dubiousness of LAPD and LASD data. Surveillance tech and cop tech generally don't contribute to society because of these problems. If you wouldn't trust RFK Jr. about vaccines, you should also be skeptical about what many PDs tell you. LAPD is just a particularly notorious example.
      - jvanderbot 4mo ago
        > We're not talking about "partial data." You might change the subject away from partial data, but the comment I replied to _was_ talking about partial data, and my rebuttal _is_ about partial data and the judgement of whether that partial data is worth releasing based soley on how we imaging people might react to it. Have you read "The Unthinkable"? I wouldn't trust RFK Jr. about vaccines if I didn't trust his data. But establishing a body that was in charge of disseminating data about vaccines is in high likelihood going to be taken over by RFK Jr types. Such a body shouldn't exist. Such a body would write "Turtles all the way down." > "knowledge is good" is such a naive take. Trivial example: You only have knowledge of crimes committed by immigrants but zero knowledge of crimes committed by citizens. How is that good? That counter-logic is so fundamentally flawed b/c it rests exclusively on the prejudgement of others and prediction of their use of the data while "I", the good thinker, can determine that it is bad for "them" to have access to this data. That is just a very bad way to think and is precisely what RFK-types do all the time.
- throawayonthe 4mo ago
  > even if it results in negative externalities, knowledge is good. i can respect[0] that, perhaps the data should be available in some form; but would regardless call 'crime alert emails' a disservice. [0]i'm skeptical of LAPD producing knowledge in this area, others have noted overpolicing etc. also this is tracking police activity/knowledge, not crimes directly (and tbf it's impossible for it to complete even with best effort)

ripberge 4mo ago

I just tried this site on my phone and it has an extremely ad invasive experience. Is this how the citizen app also gets its data?

anonymousiam 4mo ago

So the letter provides a list of five contacts for complaints about the policy. Notably missing from the list is Mayor Karen Bass, who may herself have had something to do with the policy change.