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Thank you. That article about "The Best" bothered me in a way I couldn't completely verbalize. Beyond a certain threshold, the quality of objects just simply do

by imgabe 14y ago

Thank you. That article about "The Best" bothered me in a way I couldn't completely verbalize. Beyond a certain threshold, the quality of objects just simply doesn't matter. The example of flatware was particularly annoying, because, really, in what way does a fork ever actually "fail"? Have you ever had food halfway to your mouth when the fork just suddenly collapses or something? As a tool, flatware is completely superfluous. Just ask the billion some odd people who eat with their hands. Anyway, maybe some people enjoy the process of endlessly researching and hunting around for "the best" of something. If you do, more power to you. Personally, I think when you look back at the end of your life you're going to remember the meals you ate and the people you ate them with more than the utensils you used.

bunderbunder 14y ago
> Have you ever had food halfway to your mouth when the fork just suddenly collapses or something? -- shaking fist -- One of these days, Uri Geller, you'll get yours!
daniel-cussen 14y ago
So, I had a small spoon get scratched pretty badly by the dishwasher grinder the other day. On the back, still pretty useful, except for one detail: being scratched, it could hold much more bacteria for much longer. And though it could have been stainless steel, it wasn't underneath. Furthermore, silver silverware, which is expensive, is very clean because it kills germs so well.
- imgabe 14y ago
  Silver silverware on the other hand, has to be polished by hand. This is not only time consuming but exposes you to harsh chemicals which probably negate any health benefit you get from not being exposed to (mostly harmless) bacteria. Anything you put in the dishwasher is going to come out more or less sterile anyway.
  - Domenic_S 14y ago
    > exposes you to harsh chemicals Why not go the old-school way and use baking soda and lemon juice/vinegar? Organic! > Anything you put in the dishwasher is going to come out more or less sterile anyway. Dishwashers don't get nearly hot enough to properly sterilize, and they definitely won't sterilize the parts that most need sterilization -- deeply nicked flatware, for example.
    - daniel-cussen 14y ago
      Furthermore, I have no dishwasher.
basseq 14y ago
The threshold point is a good one, here. I think there's always a way to maximize the curve: getting the best quality fork you can find given your budget, needs, propensity of friends to start a spoon band, etc. To use Moxie's bike example, I wouldn't want to ride a rusty POS that's difficult to pedal and falls apart at every intersection any more than I'd want a five-figure custom carbon fiber jobbie that will be stolen if I blink too long. Identify your variables. Maximize the curve.
- graue 14y ago
  Definitely agree with this. I ride a crappy bike I've been meaning to upgrade (it's heavy, rusted and tends to need lots of repairs), but the upside is no one's gonna work very hard to steal it. I'm loath to give up that peace of mind. For the same reason I was reluctant to upgrade my old, slow Dell netbook to a MacBook Air but I ultimately decided the tradeoff was worth it (big productivity gain). It depends on the object, what you do with it and how big of a difference quality makes. An expensive fork or spoon obviously doesn't justify itself, but to a point, a chef's knife might.
  - basseq 14y ago
    My Global G-2, 8" chef's knife was not cheap, but it makes chopping shallots and tomatoes a joy. It's it by far better than the cheap crap you'd pick up at a department store. However, spending an extra $1,500+ for a Bob Kramer 8" Carbon Steel Damascus Chef's Knife by Zwilling J.A. is not going to make a wild difference in my amateur chef'ing. And I would probably have an aneurysm every time it slipped and clanged off a mixing bowl.
konstruktor 14y ago
I am actually watching a set of cutlery gradually failing. My company relocated, and after spending lots of money on excellent desks and office chairs, facility management bought the cheapest cutlery they could get. After less than half a year, more and more of the cutlery is getting rusty. It looks gross (is it just rust or dirt?) and makes me wonder: If the quality is so bad, can I trust it to actually be reasonably "pure" stainless steel, or am I getting my daily dose of heavy metals. Also, the drinking glasses are corroding.
- graue 14y ago
  Wow. I on the other hand have drinking glasses, plates and cutlery I bought from a thrift store for like $20 for the whole set and it's been holding up fine for years. Maybe the lesson here is it's better to buy a decent product for cheap used, than to buy a new product that was cheap from day one.
  - moultano 14y ago
    Thrift stores are great ways to find durable products. If they weren't durable they wouldn't end up in a thrift store in a state anyone would want to buy.
wiredfool 14y ago
The article annoyed me, about the flatware even. Then I remember what I went through finding 'our' flatware for the wedding registry. I'm particular about it (weight, fussiness, traditional shape). So is my wife. The intersection of that set is really small. And it most definitely doesn't include the choice that he made. On further reflections though, it sounds as if he's becoming attached to stuff, because he's made the investment in choosing it. I'd rather not have that attachment to the stuff. There's a small selection of things that I consciously choose the best of, and they matter. There's a much larger selection of things that are good enough, in whatever metric that is, be it quality, cost, availability, or combination. My keyboards? They're the best. Model M13s, the best of which sells for $250 on ebay. The truck? It runs. It hasn't stranded me yet, and I don't care if I haul a yard of compost in it.
kghose 14y ago
Cheap plastic forks and knives. Though in the food not so much in the mouth.
MichaelGG 14y ago
Lots of flatware "fails" because the manufacturing is poor and leaves a nasty ridge on the bottom side, which is uncomfortable to hold. And plenty of cheaper forks/spoons seem to bend very easily. Sure, it's a small, but nevertheless annoying thing to deal with. Declaring any particular design of flatware to be "the best" seems rather silly and just boasting of design they happen to like.
- mamoswined 14y ago
  I bought some really cheap flatware on Amazon that was not very study at all. One of the knives bent when I was cutting a steak that wasn't even tough. Another cheap set I read reviews for I didn't purchase because people complained about a metal taste and it rusting after being put in the dishwasher. Yuck. But I think you hit the point of what they call in economics "diminishing marginal returns" for flatware at a pretty low price point, certainly below $10 a piece. And now with the internet where you can read reviews of flatware sets, you can more easily hit that sweet spot. However, the best is finding the really expensive stuff at garage sales since a lot of people get it as gifts and never use it.
oftenwrong 14y ago
There is some really shitty flatware on the market. My old roommate bought a cheap set that had handles constructed entirely from plastic. The connections between the plastic handles and the metal "heads" would often break. I bought my current set at a restaurant supply store. It was really cheap and is really durable.
philwelch 14y ago
Flatware failure modes I've experienced: 1. Fork tines get bent into an uncomfortable pattern. 2. The side of a spoon accumulates rough scoring damage which is uncomfortable to the lips. 3. Bending 4. Rust 5. Breaking entirely
kragen 14y ago
Yes. My kitchen is full of bent spoons, probably mostly from trying to serve ice cream that was too cold, although they predate me here, so I'm guessing. I've broken plastic forks innumerable times. A couple of hours ago, I cut the wrapper of the butter without meaning to, because I was using a steak knife to carve off a chunk. And, yeah, there's plenty of silverware that just doesn't feel good in your hands.

by imgabe 14y ago

bunderbunder 14y ago

> Have you ever had food halfway to your mouth when the fork just suddenly collapses or something? -- shaking fist -- One of these days, Uri Geller, you'll get yours!

daniel-cussen 14y ago

So, I had a small spoon get scratched pretty badly by the dishwasher grinder the other day. On the back, still pretty useful, except for one detail: being scratched, it could hold much more bacteria for much longer. And though it could have been stainless steel, it wasn't underneath. Furthermore, silver silverware, which is expensive, is very clean because it kills germs so well.

imgabe 14y ago
Silver silverware on the other hand, has to be polished by hand. This is not only time consuming but exposes you to harsh chemicals which probably negate any health benefit you get from not being exposed to (mostly harmless) bacteria. Anything you put in the dishwasher is going to come out more or less sterile anyway.
- Domenic_S 14y ago
  > exposes you to harsh chemicals Why not go the old-school way and use baking soda and lemon juice/vinegar? Organic! > Anything you put in the dishwasher is going to come out more or less sterile anyway. Dishwashers don't get nearly hot enough to properly sterilize, and they definitely won't sterilize the parts that most need sterilization -- deeply nicked flatware, for example.
  - daniel-cussen 14y ago
    Furthermore, I have no dishwasher.

basseq 14y ago

The threshold point is a good one, here. I think there's always a way to maximize the curve: getting the best quality fork you can find given your budget, needs, propensity of friends to start a spoon band, etc. To use Moxie's bike example, I wouldn't want to ride a rusty POS that's difficult to pedal and falls apart at every intersection any more than I'd want a five-figure custom carbon fiber jobbie that will be stolen if I blink too long. Identify your variables. Maximize the curve.

graue 14y ago
Definitely agree with this. I ride a crappy bike I've been meaning to upgrade (it's heavy, rusted and tends to need lots of repairs), but the upside is no one's gonna work very hard to steal it. I'm loath to give up that peace of mind. For the same reason I was reluctant to upgrade my old, slow Dell netbook to a MacBook Air but I ultimately decided the tradeoff was worth it (big productivity gain). It depends on the object, what you do with it and how big of a difference quality makes. An expensive fork or spoon obviously doesn't justify itself, but to a point, a chef's knife might.
- basseq 14y ago
  My Global G-2, 8" chef's knife was not cheap, but it makes chopping shallots and tomatoes a joy. It's it by far better than the cheap crap you'd pick up at a department store. However, spending an extra $1,500+ for a Bob Kramer 8" Carbon Steel Damascus Chef's Knife by Zwilling J.A. is not going to make a wild difference in my amateur chef'ing. And I would probably have an aneurysm every time it slipped and clanged off a mixing bowl.

konstruktor 14y ago

I am actually watching a set of cutlery gradually failing. My company relocated, and after spending lots of money on excellent desks and office chairs, facility management bought the cheapest cutlery they could get. After less than half a year, more and more of the cutlery is getting rusty. It looks gross (is it just rust or dirt?) and makes me wonder: If the quality is so bad, can I trust it to actually be reasonably "pure" stainless steel, or am I getting my daily dose of heavy metals. Also, the drinking glasses are corroding.

graue 14y ago
Wow. I on the other hand have drinking glasses, plates and cutlery I bought from a thrift store for like $20 for the whole set and it's been holding up fine for years. Maybe the lesson here is it's better to buy a decent product for cheap used, than to buy a new product that was cheap from day one.
- moultano 14y ago
  Thrift stores are great ways to find durable products. If they weren't durable they wouldn't end up in a thrift store in a state anyone would want to buy.

wiredfool 14y ago

The article annoyed me, about the flatware even. Then I remember what I went through finding 'our' flatware for the wedding registry. I'm particular about it (weight, fussiness, traditional shape). So is my wife. The intersection of that set is really small. And it most definitely doesn't include the choice that he made. On further reflections though, it sounds as if he's becoming attached to stuff, because he's made the investment in choosing it. I'd rather not have that attachment to the stuff. There's a small selection of things that I consciously choose the best of, and they matter. There's a much larger selection of things that are good enough, in whatever metric that is, be it quality, cost, availability, or combination. My keyboards? They're the best. Model M13s, the best of which sells for $250 on ebay. The truck? It runs. It hasn't stranded me yet, and I don't care if I haul a yard of compost in it.

kghose 14y ago

Cheap plastic forks and knives. Though in the food not so much in the mouth.

MichaelGG 14y ago

Lots of flatware "fails" because the manufacturing is poor and leaves a nasty ridge on the bottom side, which is uncomfortable to hold. And plenty of cheaper forks/spoons seem to bend very easily. Sure, it's a small, but nevertheless annoying thing to deal with. Declaring any particular design of flatware to be "the best" seems rather silly and just boasting of design they happen to like.

mamoswined 14y ago
I bought some really cheap flatware on Amazon that was not very study at all. One of the knives bent when I was cutting a steak that wasn't even tough. Another cheap set I read reviews for I didn't purchase because people complained about a metal taste and it rusting after being put in the dishwasher. Yuck. But I think you hit the point of what they call in economics "diminishing marginal returns" for flatware at a pretty low price point, certainly below $10 a piece. And now with the internet where you can read reviews of flatware sets, you can more easily hit that sweet spot. However, the best is finding the really expensive stuff at garage sales since a lot of people get it as gifts and never use it.

oftenwrong 14y ago

There is some really shitty flatware on the market. My old roommate bought a cheap set that had handles constructed entirely from plastic. The connections between the plastic handles and the metal "heads" would often break. I bought my current set at a restaurant supply store. It was really cheap and is really durable.

philwelch 14y ago

Flatware failure modes I've experienced: 1. Fork tines get bent into an uncomfortable pattern. 2. The side of a spoon accumulates rough scoring damage which is uncomfortable to the lips. 3. Bending 4. Rust 5. Breaking entirely

kragen 14y ago

Yes. My kitchen is full of bent spoons, probably mostly from trying to serve ice cream that was too cold, although they predate me here, so I'm guessing. I've broken plastic forks innumerable times. A couple of hours ago, I cut the wrapper of the butter without meaning to, because I was using a steak knife to carve off a chunk. And, yeah, there's plenty of silverware that just doesn't feel good in your hands.