3 ms·

"There are plenty of large cities in the world that are safe or safer without also being police states." Can you name one?

w1ntermute 14y ago
Tokyo
- look_lookatme 14y ago
  It's a stretch to say Tokyo is any less a police state than NYC given Japanese weapon laws and mass CCTV survellience.
  - w1ntermute 14y ago
    > given Japanese weapon laws Gun rights are not the be all and end all of freedom. > mass CCTV survellience I see absolutely nothing wrong with the use of CCTVs to monitor public places (or the use of them to monitor private places by the owners of those places). If civilians are allowed to record the police in public, then the police should be allowed to record civilians in public too.
    - greyboy 14y ago
      That's all well and good, but does that (CCTV surveillance) fall into what cobrausn quoted (Benjamin Fraklin?) above? I guess it's a matter of perspective or opinion. Where do you/we draw the line?
    - look_lookatme 14y ago
      You have an odd definition of police state, then. People control and unchecked intelligence gathering on citizens are essential to a repressive power apparatus. The point of cobrausn is that NYC takes this too far while other large cities do not. I'd argue the safest cities in the same class as NYC are probably as much police states. At least in regards to violent crime. Petty crime rates are difficult to compare uniformly across cultures.
  - rdtsc 14y ago
    Well that's easy then -- enact weapon laws in US instead of frisking random people but only _if_ you think that it is what is making Tokyo safe.
rhizome 14y ago
Since NYC has about the highest level of personal intrusion, I'd say all of the ones that have a lower crime rate.
jacquesm 14y ago
Luxemburg, Vienna, Berlin, Amsterdam, Paris, Zurich, and so on. And within the US there are plenty as well: http://www.forbes.com/2009/10/26/safest-cities-ten-lifestyle-real-estate-metros-msa_chart.html http://www.forbes.com/2009/10/26/safest-cities-ten-lifestyle... and http://www.mercer.com/press-releases/quality-of-living-report-2011 http://www.mercer.com/press-releases/quality-of-living-repor... New York doesn't even enter the top 50 when it comes to safety in the second table there. And in Canada Toronto, Vancouver.

w1ntermute 14y ago

Tokyo

look_lookatme 14y ago
It's a stretch to say Tokyo is any less a police state than NYC given Japanese weapon laws and mass CCTV survellience.
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  > given Japanese weapon laws Gun rights are not the be all and end all of freedom. > mass CCTV survellience I see absolutely nothing wrong with the use of CCTVs to monitor public places (or the use of them to monitor private places by the owners of those places). If civilians are allowed to record the police in public, then the police should be allowed to record civilians in public too.
  - greyboy 14y ago
    That's all well and good, but does that (CCTV surveillance) fall into what cobrausn quoted (Benjamin Fraklin?) above? I guess it's a matter of perspective or opinion. Where do you/we draw the line?
  - look_lookatme 14y ago
    You have an odd definition of police state, then. People control and unchecked intelligence gathering on citizens are essential to a repressive power apparatus. The point of cobrausn is that NYC takes this too far while other large cities do not. I'd argue the safest cities in the same class as NYC are probably as much police states. At least in regards to violent crime. Petty crime rates are difficult to compare uniformly across cultures.
- rdtsc 14y ago
  Well that's easy then -- enact weapon laws in US instead of frisking random people but only _if_ you think that it is what is making Tokyo safe.

rhizome 14y ago

Since NYC has about the highest level of personal intrusion, I'd say all of the ones that have a lower crime rate.

jacquesm 14y ago

Luxemburg, Vienna, Berlin, Amsterdam, Paris, Zurich, and so on. And within the US there are plenty as well: http://www.forbes.com/2009/10/26/safest-cities-ten-lifestyle-real-estate-metros-msa_chart.html http://www.forbes.com/2009/10/26/safest-cities-ten-lifestyle... and http://www.mercer.com/press-releases/quality-of-living-report-2011 http://www.mercer.com/press-releases/quality-of-living-repor... New York doesn't even enter the top 50 when it comes to safety in the second table there. And in Canada Toronto, Vancouver.