4 ms·

I was confused by your comment > I don't think it's just a problem for women. Since the paper provided clear evidence that this problem is worse for women. Bu

by jvm 14y ago

I was confused by your comment > I don't think it's just a problem for women. Since the paper provided clear evidence that this problem is worse for women. But then I kept reading and learned that you believe > The percentage of people who are decent negotiators is small and, empirically, most of them seem to be men. So that clarified to me that actually you a) believe women are inferior and b) that you did not read even the article's abstract which clearly stated that > We observe interesting data patterns. For example, we find that when there is no explicit statement that wages are negotiable, men are more likely to negotiate than women. However, when we explicitly mention the possibility that wages are negotiable, this difference disappears, and even tends to reverse. Implying that women's failure to negotiate arises from being socialized not to raise a fuss about wages rather than a difference in intrinsic ability. All in all pretty standard for a top comment about gender issues on HN.

michaelochurch 14y ago
Sorry, I was talking about "fear of negotiating" topic. I don't claim to know why there are gendered pay disparities, and there's certainly some injustice going on. Lack of desire to negotiate can't explain all of it. I certainly don't believe that "women are inferior". I was talking about negotiation skill. It can be learned, and there are plenty of women who are excellent at it.
- jvm 14y ago
  I actually want to apologize. I misread your comment as contradicting the article: Saying basically that there is no gender disparity, or if there is it's women's intrinsic shortcomings, so I apologize about that. I still think it sort of reads that way but it's obviously not what you meant and I clearly see now how you meant it to be read.
stcredzero 14y ago
> So that clarified to me that actually you a) believe women are inferior It does not do that for me. The existence of a gender role or a population bias in current society says nothing about men or women being superior or inferior. It most likely says something about society. The percentage of people who are serial killers is small, and empirically, most of them are men.
hackinthebochs 14y ago
Your comment wasn't the least bit fair to michaelochurch >So that clarified to me that actually you a) believe women are inferior There is absolutely no way your quoted portion could honestly be read in a way that suggests that. "Empirically, most of them seem to be men" explicitly disavows any attempt at explaining the difference. This is the problem I see with a lot on threads on the topic of social justice here and places like reddit. Some have a pervasive need to read everything in the worst possible light, even going to the point of inventing enemies to support a narrative of widespread persecution. >All in all pretty standard for a top comment about gender issues on HN. I'm not sure what you expect from a forum such as this. There simply isn't much to add in terms of the socialization aspect of this article that hasn't already been hashed out in other threads about gender issues. This study doesn't really add any new information that would warrant another discussion on the issue. Discussing how everyone is affected by lack of assertiveness in general, and specifically in salary negotiations will likely have much more utility, thus comments along that line get voted up. There is nothing to be read into this.

by jvm 14y ago

michaelochurch 14y ago

Sorry, I was talking about "fear of negotiating" topic. I don't claim to know why there are gendered pay disparities, and there's certainly some injustice going on. Lack of desire to negotiate can't explain all of it. I certainly don't believe that "women are inferior". I was talking about negotiation skill. It can be learned, and there are plenty of women who are excellent at it.

jvm 14y ago
I actually want to apologize. I misread your comment as contradicting the article: Saying basically that there is no gender disparity, or if there is it's women's intrinsic shortcomings, so I apologize about that. I still think it sort of reads that way but it's obviously not what you meant and I clearly see now how you meant it to be read.

stcredzero 14y ago

> So that clarified to me that actually you a) believe women are inferior It does not do that for me. The existence of a gender role or a population bias in current society says nothing about men or women being superior or inferior. It most likely says something about society. The percentage of people who are serial killers is small, and empirically, most of them are men.

hackinthebochs 14y ago

Your comment wasn't the least bit fair to michaelochurch >So that clarified to me that actually you a) believe women are inferior There is absolutely no way your quoted portion could honestly be read in a way that suggests that. "Empirically, most of them seem to be men" explicitly disavows any attempt at explaining the difference. This is the problem I see with a lot on threads on the topic of social justice here and places like reddit. Some have a pervasive need to read everything in the worst possible light, even going to the point of inventing enemies to support a narrative of widespread persecution. >All in all pretty standard for a top comment about gender issues on HN. I'm not sure what you expect from a forum such as this. There simply isn't much to add in terms of the socialization aspect of this article that hasn't already been hashed out in other threads about gender issues. This study doesn't really add any new information that would warrant another discussion on the issue. Discussing how everyone is affected by lack of assertiveness in general, and specifically in salary negotiations will likely have much more utility, thus comments along that line get voted up. There is nothing to be read into this.