4 ms·

Of course and a lot of people disagree that vaccines work, why does this negate any hard evidence?

kami23 5mo ago
I am unsure what you mean by hard evidence in the context of AI then, what is the evidence we are negating in your view?
goatlover 5mo ago
We could have had this same argument about social media 15 years ago before hard evidence showed it's not quite the net benefit to society it was touted as.
jameslars 5mo ago
Is the hard evidence of AI being a net improvement for society in the room with us now?
- rickydroll 5mo ago
  If I'm in the room, yes. For me, AI is one, is the best handicap accessibility tool I've ever had. At a minimum, speech recognition is a higher quality, and second, it lets me write code again. I'm working on the third benefit, which is it helps me organize, helps my ADHD mind organize large chunks of random information. If you look around, you'll find the AI has made some significant improvements to medicine and engineering. These improvements get drowned out by the AI Cheerleaders, but they're there.
  - bluefirebrand 5mo ago
    > helps my ADHD mind organize large chunks of random information. I keep seeing this and I'm pretty envious! You must have a different form of ADHD than I do. For me, trying to use AI to build anything is terrible for my attention, it turns everything into a miserable slog because it's so hands off. I miss getting into flow.
    - rickydroll 5mo ago
      I hear you. AI helps me get into flow state because I can have a rambling conversation with a chatbot and work through ideas and what abouts. eventually it helps me forget to a place where flow is easier to maintain.
  - jameslars 5mo ago
    I like this argument/reasoning more than any I've encountered so far. Thank you! Enabling the disabled is definitely a positive and this is a strong argument for the "pro AI" column.
    - rickydroll 5mo ago
      I think another argument for AI is that it can help pull out patterns and information that are normally hidden from human cognition because we can't encompass that information and keep it in mind. I think one place we should apply this is to the financial system. Use it to detect fraud, tax manipulation games and Other b**** pulled by the 1%ers. With luck, it might even help us find methods of reducing their influence and power.
      - UtopiaPunk 5mo ago
        "With luck, it might even help us find methods of reducing their influence and power." If it started to look like that might happen, the ones with influence and power would adjust the AI behavior. They own and control them.
        rickydroll 5mo ago
        Maybe.. off grid local llms from multiple sources could be a bullwark against that.
        UtopiaPunk 5mo ago
        Two points on that: 1. This would require hardware to be affordable by mere mortals. That hardware is not financially beyond our reach yet, but AI is making the cost of buying good computer parts very expensive. The big corporations are working against the goal of local LLMs in a major way just by soaking up most of the hardware on the market. And I don't even think that's intentional - they're just too hungry to consider otherwise. They can pay high prices where normal people cannot. 2.Local LLMs would have to be designed to be very convenient to use. As it stands, the big players are making their online models very convenient instead, and that let's them charge a subscription. It's a proven business model that our society has gotten used to (even if we grumble a bit). Even if the hardware were cheap, local LLMs are mostly for businesses, with a few hobbyists running it in their basement because they can. It's extremely hard for me to imagine local LLMs being a threat to the powerful in any way.
- aspenmartin 5mo ago
  Depends, is the net improvement of the internet, electricity, agriculture, steam engine also in the room?
  - nancyminusone 5mo ago
    Asbestos is the miracle material it is advertised as. It really is great insulation, and really is absolutely fireproof. Thousands of industrial uses are readily apparent. Despite this, because of its other effects, the cost to clean up and stop using asbestos is greater than the sum total of any benefit from all mined asbestos worldwide. Even a miracle technology can still be a net disaster.
    - aspenmartin 5mo ago
      It's a good point I have to say
  - gensym 5mo ago
    I don't understand that this argument. Why does the net improvement of the technologies listed imply that AI will also have a net improvement? Are you just arguing that there's no such thing as technology that is harmful on net?
vitally3643 5mo ago
You presume there is hard evidence that AI is good for society. In reality, the inverse is true. Now you understand why anti-vaxxers ignore evidence. Because it doesn't fit with your worldview and you're too narrow-minded and selfish to consider that your viewpoint might actually be wrong and bad for others.
junek 5mo ago
Are you really comparing LLMs to vaccines? Jesus
andagar1243 5mo ago
What is the hard evidence that you speak of?

I am unsure what you mean by hard evidence in the context of AI then, what is the evidence we are negating in your view?

goatlover 5mo ago

We could have had this same argument about social media 15 years ago before hard evidence showed it's not quite the net benefit to society it was touted as.

jameslars 5mo ago

Is the hard evidence of AI being a net improvement for society in the room with us now?

rickydroll 5mo ago
If I'm in the room, yes. For me, AI is one, is the best handicap accessibility tool I've ever had. At a minimum, speech recognition is a higher quality, and second, it lets me write code again. I'm working on the third benefit, which is it helps me organize, helps my ADHD mind organize large chunks of random information. If you look around, you'll find the AI has made some significant improvements to medicine and engineering. These improvements get drowned out by the AI Cheerleaders, but they're there.
- bluefirebrand 5mo ago
  > helps my ADHD mind organize large chunks of random information. I keep seeing this and I'm pretty envious! You must have a different form of ADHD than I do. For me, trying to use AI to build anything is terrible for my attention, it turns everything into a miserable slog because it's so hands off. I miss getting into flow.
  - rickydroll 5mo ago
    I hear you. AI helps me get into flow state because I can have a rambling conversation with a chatbot and work through ideas and what abouts. eventually it helps me forget to a place where flow is easier to maintain.
- jameslars 5mo ago
  I like this argument/reasoning more than any I've encountered so far. Thank you! Enabling the disabled is definitely a positive and this is a strong argument for the "pro AI" column.
  - rickydroll 5mo ago
    I think another argument for AI is that it can help pull out patterns and information that are normally hidden from human cognition because we can't encompass that information and keep it in mind. I think one place we should apply this is to the financial system. Use it to detect fraud, tax manipulation games and Other b**** pulled by the 1%ers. With luck, it might even help us find methods of reducing their influence and power.
    - UtopiaPunk 5mo ago
      "With luck, it might even help us find methods of reducing their influence and power." If it started to look like that might happen, the ones with influence and power would adjust the AI behavior. They own and control them.
      - rickydroll 5mo ago
        Maybe.. off grid local llms from multiple sources could be a bullwark against that.
        UtopiaPunk 5mo ago
        Two points on that: 1. This would require hardware to be affordable by mere mortals. That hardware is not financially beyond our reach yet, but AI is making the cost of buying good computer parts very expensive. The big corporations are working against the goal of local LLMs in a major way just by soaking up most of the hardware on the market. And I don't even think that's intentional - they're just too hungry to consider otherwise. They can pay high prices where normal people cannot. 2.Local LLMs would have to be designed to be very convenient to use. As it stands, the big players are making their online models very convenient instead, and that let's them charge a subscription. It's a proven business model that our society has gotten used to (even if we grumble a bit). Even if the hardware were cheap, local LLMs are mostly for businesses, with a few hobbyists running it in their basement because they can. It's extremely hard for me to imagine local LLMs being a threat to the powerful in any way.
aspenmartin 5mo ago
Depends, is the net improvement of the internet, electricity, agriculture, steam engine also in the room?
- nancyminusone 5mo ago
  Asbestos is the miracle material it is advertised as. It really is great insulation, and really is absolutely fireproof. Thousands of industrial uses are readily apparent. Despite this, because of its other effects, the cost to clean up and stop using asbestos is greater than the sum total of any benefit from all mined asbestos worldwide. Even a miracle technology can still be a net disaster.
  - aspenmartin 5mo ago
    It's a good point I have to say
- gensym 5mo ago
  I don't understand that this argument. Why does the net improvement of the technologies listed imply that AI will also have a net improvement? Are you just arguing that there's no such thing as technology that is harmful on net?

vitally3643 5mo ago

You presume there is hard evidence that AI is good for society. In reality, the inverse is true. Now you understand why anti-vaxxers ignore evidence. Because it doesn't fit with your worldview and you're too narrow-minded and selfish to consider that your viewpoint might actually be wrong and bad for others.

junek 5mo ago

Are you really comparing LLMs to vaccines? Jesus

andagar1243 5mo ago

What is the hard evidence that you speak of?