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Since when did the Loop demonstrate it could beat subway systems? A heavy rail subway line can transport 30,000+ people per hour compared to vegas loop which m

Since when did the Loop demonstrate it could beat subway systems? A heavy rail subway line can transport 30,000+ people per hour compared to vegas loop which maxes out at 4500 people/hr. Plus every single Tesla in the tunnel requires a human driver, unlike trains. Even IF Elon managed to create these larger Tesla vans, they won't reach those numbers on a single route.

cornholio 4mo ago
Loop demonstrated 4500 people per hour with Teslas with human drivers. Hence, the assertion that it can be competitive with most light rail systems is entirely reasonable, assuming, as I said, "they get adequate, automated, larger vehicles". For example, the much hyped but so elusive Robovans. The largest subways in the world can reach 80,000 pphpd (crush load) but the vast majority of US systems are under 20k, and those are numbers Loop can likely reach with larger vehicles: https://www.reddit.com/r/BoringCompany/comments/s4r6l4/chart_of_us_train_capacities_vs_potential_loop/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BoringCompany/comments/s4r6l4/chart... Only a handful of the largest US systems really hit the capacities the only heavy rail subways can support, and they do so with eye watering costs, see the famous $2.5 billion mile in New York's Second Avenue extension. So a $10-20mil/mile system with 1/4-1/2 the capacity of a full subway could, if demonstrated, completely change the game in many cities.
- Zigurd 4mo ago
  > Loop demonstrated 4500 people per hour with Teslas with human drivers In what K hole did that happen? All of the experiences I have heard of involve multi minutes long waits for a car to arrive, and then time to load the car and unload at the far end. That adds up to dozens of people per hour if they are lined up and organized waiting to get in a car. Low hundreds per day, on a busy day is barely plausible.
  - cornholio 4mo ago
    Hitting almost 4000 was a requirement of the LVCC bid and they actually hit 4400. This is all public info available from unbiased sources; preferring schadenfreude and rage inducing bait is, of course, a choice you are entitled to.
    - Zigurd 4mo ago
      YouTube has many videos of people trying out the Vegas loop. None of them show something that possibly scales to 4400 riders per hour.
      - gamerdonkey 4mo ago
        I'm just coming across this discussion now, but I did a little research that I can add to possibly explain the difference between the advertised capacity and the perceived capacity. The 4400 number is based on a capacity test that the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority performed[1] to certify the Vegas Loop met its contractual requirements, which was 4400 riders per hour. The test was performed with "about 300 people", so results were extrapolated to reach the final number. The LVCVA didn't publish any further information about their methodology, so we can't really comment for sure on how realistic their conclusions might be. However, a few months after the tunnel opened, there was some criticism[2] saying, "the highest hourly passenger rate hit thus far is 1,355 passengers per hour." It also notied that the ride took 4 minutes instead of the 2-minute goal. A spokesperson from the LVCVA responded: > “The ride itself does in fact take two minutes,” Nelson-Kraft said. “What wasn’t taken into account are other factors of the Loop experience, like passengers load in and load out time. [...]" Given that the LVCVA conducted the original capacity "stress test", I think it would be reasonable to guess that they tested only how many passengers can be pushed through the 12-foot-wide tunnel and did not consider loading and unloading as part of overall rates. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20210707125245/https://news3lv.com/news/local/lvcva-results-of-las-vegas-convention-center-loop-tests https://web.archive.org/web/20210707125245/https://news3lv.c... [2] https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/news-columns/road-warrior/vegas-loops-ride-times-capacity-not-a-problem-says-lvcva-2478628/ https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/news-columns/road-warrior... (soft paywall, viewable with JS disabled)

cornholio 4mo ago

Loop demonstrated 4500 people per hour with Teslas with human drivers. Hence, the assertion that it can be competitive with most light rail systems is entirely reasonable, assuming, as I said, "they get adequate, automated, larger vehicles". For example, the much hyped but so elusive Robovans. The largest subways in the world can reach 80,000 pphpd (crush load) but the vast majority of US systems are under 20k, and those are numbers Loop can likely reach with larger vehicles: https://www.reddit.com/r/BoringCompany/comments/s4r6l4/chart_of_us_train_capacities_vs_potential_loop/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BoringCompany/comments/s4r6l4/chart... Only a handful of the largest US systems really hit the capacities the only heavy rail subways can support, and they do so with eye watering costs, see the famous $2.5 billion mile in New York's Second Avenue extension. So a $10-20mil/mile system with 1/4-1/2 the capacity of a full subway could, if demonstrated, completely change the game in many cities.

Zigurd 4mo ago
> Loop demonstrated 4500 people per hour with Teslas with human drivers In what K hole did that happen? All of the experiences I have heard of involve multi minutes long waits for a car to arrive, and then time to load the car and unload at the far end. That adds up to dozens of people per hour if they are lined up and organized waiting to get in a car. Low hundreds per day, on a busy day is barely plausible.
- cornholio 4mo ago
  Hitting almost 4000 was a requirement of the LVCC bid and they actually hit 4400. This is all public info available from unbiased sources; preferring schadenfreude and rage inducing bait is, of course, a choice you are entitled to.
  - Zigurd 4mo ago
    YouTube has many videos of people trying out the Vegas loop. None of them show something that possibly scales to 4400 riders per hour.
    - gamerdonkey 4mo ago
      I'm just coming across this discussion now, but I did a little research that I can add to possibly explain the difference between the advertised capacity and the perceived capacity. The 4400 number is based on a capacity test that the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority performed[1] to certify the Vegas Loop met its contractual requirements, which was 4400 riders per hour. The test was performed with "about 300 people", so results were extrapolated to reach the final number. The LVCVA didn't publish any further information about their methodology, so we can't really comment for sure on how realistic their conclusions might be. However, a few months after the tunnel opened, there was some criticism[2] saying, "the highest hourly passenger rate hit thus far is 1,355 passengers per hour." It also notied that the ride took 4 minutes instead of the 2-minute goal. A spokesperson from the LVCVA responded: > “The ride itself does in fact take two minutes,” Nelson-Kraft said. “What wasn’t taken into account are other factors of the Loop experience, like passengers load in and load out time. [...]" Given that the LVCVA conducted the original capacity "stress test", I think it would be reasonable to guess that they tested only how many passengers can be pushed through the 12-foot-wide tunnel and did not consider loading and unloading as part of overall rates. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20210707125245/https://news3lv.com/news/local/lvcva-results-of-las-vegas-convention-center-loop-tests https://web.archive.org/web/20210707125245/https://news3lv.c... [2] https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/news-columns/road-warrior/vegas-loops-ride-times-capacity-not-a-problem-says-lvcva-2478628/ https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/news-columns/road-warrior... (soft paywall, viewable with JS disabled)