3 ms·

systemd is complex on first view, but after using it you didn't want to use anything else. It's handy to manage everything using systemctl

alyandon 5mo ago
That and systemd having actually useful man pages.
the_real_cher 5mo ago
This is such a modern view. People used to HATE systemd when it first came out, but I always liked it and knew people would eventually come around and its nice to see they finally did!
- egorfine 5mo ago
  Some people are stubborn and refuse to see how obviously superior systemd is to the old ways. Me included.
- weaksauce 5mo ago
  the thing for me is I started using the init system and while it was fine it always felt brittle for some reason. systemd feels solid and robust like it was well thought out. maybe i'm off base and didn't know how to use init effectively but it was my feeling. that and cron always felt fragile too with a lot of quirks and limitations you had to work around instead of being a robust thing from the start.
- eichin 5mo ago
  Arguably they (we :-) were right at the time. Around Ubuntu 16.04, the journal was Hot Garbage - to keep a production system working (as in, "didn't randomly stop logging, didn't regularly corrupt logs, didn't uncontrollably fill the disk because none of the limit options actually worked") we eventually backported about 30 fixes from newer versions - by 22.04 or so it was "fit for purpose" out of the box, but earlier than that it earned every bit of hatred it got.
- guilhas 5mo ago
  People still hate systemd First it caused lots of issues. And didn't deliver anything significant But the biggest issue has always been architectural, the way systemd keeps absorbing existing projects, and functionality. That keep adding to the more than 1 million lines of C monolith, that can burden progress in the futre But as long people can replace any of systemd tool, for a tool they like better, all good Personally I am now using desktop/server distros without systemd, and there is nothing that I miss, everything works... cuda/llama.cpp/steam/docker... And commands always have to google them anyway, or find in history...
  - the_real_cher 5mo ago
    It does seem to go against the Linux spirit of one tool one purpose.
egorfine 5mo ago
Some people see it differently. As in: after using it they don't want to use it. I hate systemd with passion. But that's because I'm old because obviously systemd-* is the only right way and everyone else who see things differently is a pundit.
bjoli 5mo ago
I hard disagree. Previously I could use what I knew about Linux commands to read logs and administer the systemm. Systemctl knowledge does not generalize. I have done scheme all my life, which is why I prefer shepherd. Not only is it in a syntax that i can use elsewhere, I get completion in Emacs.
- bjoli 5mo ago
  To continue on this: info use systemd on most of my systems. I dont mind. But despite having used it for about 14 years, I still have to read the manual of journalctl. Systemctl is OK, but I really do not like that respect of the utilities.
rconti 5mo ago
I still hate journald logging though
sureglymop 5mo ago
There are still some weird things/choices in its design I don't fully understand. For example, why do unit definitions have to be actual files on disk? Then, all of these files are reloaded when the daemon reloads, not just changed ones. But, why couldn't there be an API letting me add units programmatically? (There kind of is but it's constrained/inflexible) Or, why can't I declare multiple units in the same file? It's really designed around the filesystem instead of abstracting at a different level, which is a choice I don't think is smart. It's not like it follows the unix philosophy though. As for the format used for unit definitions, I wish TOML had been around so they could have had something sensible...
- paulddraper 5mo ago
  You can add units programmatically. Google it!
  - paulddraper 5mo ago
    Downvoting makes no sense. https://www.google.com/search?q=systemd+add+units+programmatically https://www.google.com/search?q=systemd+add+units+programmat... You can do it either via the CLI (systemd-run), or via the D-Bus API (StartTransientUnit).
    - paulddraper 5mo ago
      PS There's even systemd.generator for a hybrid approach. SystemD has no dearth of programmable options.
    - sureglymop 5mo ago
      I didnt downvote and I appreciated your reply. Just to let you know :) I have tried available options including generators.
- lanycrost 5mo ago
  it's so, but overall linux is not following linux philosophy in many other places, and do it far before systemd. Many tools even running under unix not doing so like gcc, x.org, etc.

alyandon 5mo ago

That and systemd having actually useful man pages.

the_real_cher 5mo ago

This is such a modern view. People used to HATE systemd when it first came out, but I always liked it and knew people would eventually come around and its nice to see they finally did!

egorfine 5mo ago
Some people are stubborn and refuse to see how obviously superior systemd is to the old ways. Me included.
weaksauce 5mo ago
the thing for me is I started using the init system and while it was fine it always felt brittle for some reason. systemd feels solid and robust like it was well thought out. maybe i'm off base and didn't know how to use init effectively but it was my feeling. that and cron always felt fragile too with a lot of quirks and limitations you had to work around instead of being a robust thing from the start.
eichin 5mo ago
Arguably they (we :-) were right at the time. Around Ubuntu 16.04, the journal was Hot Garbage - to keep a production system working (as in, "didn't randomly stop logging, didn't regularly corrupt logs, didn't uncontrollably fill the disk because none of the limit options actually worked") we eventually backported about 30 fixes from newer versions - by 22.04 or so it was "fit for purpose" out of the box, but earlier than that it earned every bit of hatred it got.
guilhas 5mo ago
People still hate systemd First it caused lots of issues. And didn't deliver anything significant But the biggest issue has always been architectural, the way systemd keeps absorbing existing projects, and functionality. That keep adding to the more than 1 million lines of C monolith, that can burden progress in the futre But as long people can replace any of systemd tool, for a tool they like better, all good Personally I am now using desktop/server distros without systemd, and there is nothing that I miss, everything works... cuda/llama.cpp/steam/docker... And commands always have to google them anyway, or find in history...
- the_real_cher 5mo ago
  It does seem to go against the Linux spirit of one tool one purpose.

egorfine 5mo ago

Some people see it differently. As in: after using it they don't want to use it. I hate systemd with passion. But that's because I'm old because obviously systemd-* is the only right way and everyone else who see things differently is a pundit.

bjoli 5mo ago

I hard disagree. Previously I could use what I knew about Linux commands to read logs and administer the systemm. Systemctl knowledge does not generalize. I have done scheme all my life, which is why I prefer shepherd. Not only is it in a syntax that i can use elsewhere, I get completion in Emacs.

bjoli 5mo ago
To continue on this: info use systemd on most of my systems. I dont mind. But despite having used it for about 14 years, I still have to read the manual of journalctl. Systemctl is OK, but I really do not like that respect of the utilities.

rconti 5mo ago

I still hate journald logging though

sureglymop 5mo ago

There are still some weird things/choices in its design I don't fully understand. For example, why do unit definitions have to be actual files on disk? Then, all of these files are reloaded when the daemon reloads, not just changed ones. But, why couldn't there be an API letting me add units programmatically? (There kind of is but it's constrained/inflexible) Or, why can't I declare multiple units in the same file? It's really designed around the filesystem instead of abstracting at a different level, which is a choice I don't think is smart. It's not like it follows the unix philosophy though. As for the format used for unit definitions, I wish TOML had been around so they could have had something sensible...

paulddraper 5mo ago
You can add units programmatically. Google it!
- paulddraper 5mo ago
  Downvoting makes no sense. https://www.google.com/search?q=systemd+add+units+programmatically https://www.google.com/search?q=systemd+add+units+programmat... You can do it either via the CLI (systemd-run), or via the D-Bus API (StartTransientUnit).
  - paulddraper 5mo ago
    PS There's even systemd.generator for a hybrid approach. SystemD has no dearth of programmable options.
  - sureglymop 5mo ago
    I didnt downvote and I appreciated your reply. Just to let you know :) I have tried available options including generators.
lanycrost 5mo ago
it's so, but overall linux is not following linux philosophy in many other places, and do it far before systemd. Many tools even running under unix not doing so like gcc, x.org, etc.