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Since I seem to be the target of this comment I'll respond. Einstein was human. The purpose of using the phrases "womanizer" and "demanding jerk" was emotional

Since I seem to be the target of this comment I'll respond. Einstein was human. The purpose of using the phrases "womanizer" and "demanding jerk" was emotional -- we think of our heroes in pure terms. To associate them with negative judgmental phrases (such that we might easily use with anybody else in the world we meet) causes us distress. And from what I understand, Einstein chased women all his life, even during his second marriage. How he and his second wife got along with this is anybody's guess. But to focus on Einstein or his faults (or my easy judgement of him) is to miss the point. We read this list and we feel disjointed -- cognitive dissonance. How can such a great man speak like this to one who loves him? The reaction shouldn't be to start naval-gazing at our on judgment of others. The reaction should be to realize that we have only a very simple and cartoonish view of the world. People who did a lot of good in the world had some really big flaws. People who did a lot of evil in the world had redeeming qualities. If we really want to understand these folks, we need to see them in their own terms, not how mass media portrays them. Perhaps some folks want to canonize some and demonize others. I much prefer to live in a world full of folks just like me -- human. The more I start glossing over faults? The more I'm missing out on all the good parts of history. Look. Einstein was a womanizer. Galileo was a bit of a jerk. Newton was unhealthily obsesses with numbers. Martin Luther King Jr also chased women. Hell Nash was officially certifiable. If the only thing you get out of all my statements is that I'm judgmental, you're missing the point. Worse yet your'e missing all the good stuff, the parts of history people don't talk about. I'm not saying these men are bad; I'm saying they're just like the rest of us.

jacquesm 14y ago
The problem isn't a judgment per se, it is judging based on evidence ripped completely out of time and place. Context is missing here and without that context you really can't say at all whether this was either a jerk making demands or someone exhibiting the patience of a saint. Even with a biography as a guide you still can't make a call like that. The private affairs between two people are best left alone unless you get an active invitation from both participants to state what you think, and even then you're going to have to work really hard to figure out what an objective viewpoint would be. Judging is easy, deciding when explicitly not to judge is a lot harder. And I wasn't judging you either ;)
- DanielBMarkham 14y ago
  I think we are talking past each other. If I knew Einstein, if he were alive today, then certainly what you say is true. Additionally, if I were trying to impeach him or his works, such as the attacks that Thomas Jefferson gets when we talk about slavery, then you would also have a point. But I'm not trying to slander the man, I'm trying to understand him. When I was a kid I used to be interested in General Patton of WWII. After a long spell of hero worship, I came to know more and more about the man. Finally I had an epiphany: he was really an asshole. Men who were under his command would have shot him. Many times. The people he reported to could barely manage him. He was an arrogant, self-centered, SOB. But that didn't make Patton bad. That made Patton interesting. Yes, he was a son of a bitch, but damnit, he was our son of a bitch. :)
  - jacquesm 14y ago
    > I'm trying to understand him. You may have to simply live with not being able to. Both because of a lack of cultural connection and because you weren't there when it happened.
    - DanielBMarkham 14y ago
      By this same token, we can never really understand anybody, since we never can fully understand what it's like to be them. Getting a little deep for me early on a Tuesday morning, jacques. If your name really is jacques (which I can't be sure of) :)
      - jacquesm 14y ago
        You can try to make it ridiculous but I actually was not aiming at anything 'deep' or philosophical, merely indicating that there is a problem with the method used to gain the required level of understanding. I think you can actually understand others, but you're going to have to interact (like we do right here) with those people that you wish to understand. Trying to understand people that have been dead for quite a while from (very terse) writings made in a stressful situation almost a century old is a very difficult undertaking. The lack of access to the subject, the distortion of social mores over time and more things like that make this from a practical point of view very hard. At best this will give you fractional insights into aspects of their character it will never allow you to say 'x is a jerk' or anything to that effect. There would have to be significant qualification of that statement.
e40 14y ago
Look around at all the exceptional people of our time. Jobs. Ellison. Every gifted, and I mean truly gifted, person I know or know about had a bizarre upbringing or background, and the vast majority of them are complete jerks. To rise above what is normal, it really helps if you are not given normal upbringing and stimuli early in life. And, when that is the case, you will likely step outside the bounds of what normal society views as acceptable behavior. Jobs is the best example from our time. By his own authorized biography, he was a complete asshole, but he did amazing things.
- hnriot 14y ago
  Apple did amazing things, it's somewhat unfair to give all the credit to Steve Jobs. NeXT didn't exactly do very well. There was something magical about the combination of people, from designers, to technologists to the supply chain optimization that made all the fancy ideas reality. It wasn't just Jobs, he steered the ship, he was its figurehead, but he, and his team did amazing things.
PeterisP 14y ago
The situation isn't [described as] "How can such a great man speak like this to one who loves him?" - it's the situation where the love-marriage has ended, and they are staying together for the kids and for practical reasons only. Read it as a "roommate agreement" of a sort.
Shorel 14y ago
"How can such a great man speak like this to one who loves him?" There's your problem. You are supposing the existence of a feeling where it was probably another, probably opposite, feeling. All your rant is based on a probably false premise.

jacquesm 14y ago

The problem isn't a judgment per se, it is judging based on evidence ripped completely out of time and place. Context is missing here and without that context you really can't say at all whether this was either a jerk making demands or someone exhibiting the patience of a saint. Even with a biography as a guide you still can't make a call like that. The private affairs between two people are best left alone unless you get an active invitation from both participants to state what you think, and even then you're going to have to work really hard to figure out what an objective viewpoint would be. Judging is easy, deciding when explicitly not to judge is a lot harder. And I wasn't judging you either ;)

DanielBMarkham 14y ago
I think we are talking past each other. If I knew Einstein, if he were alive today, then certainly what you say is true. Additionally, if I were trying to impeach him or his works, such as the attacks that Thomas Jefferson gets when we talk about slavery, then you would also have a point. But I'm not trying to slander the man, I'm trying to understand him. When I was a kid I used to be interested in General Patton of WWII. After a long spell of hero worship, I came to know more and more about the man. Finally I had an epiphany: he was really an asshole. Men who were under his command would have shot him. Many times. The people he reported to could barely manage him. He was an arrogant, self-centered, SOB. But that didn't make Patton bad. That made Patton interesting. Yes, he was a son of a bitch, but damnit, he was our son of a bitch. :)
- jacquesm 14y ago
  > I'm trying to understand him. You may have to simply live with not being able to. Both because of a lack of cultural connection and because you weren't there when it happened.
  - DanielBMarkham 14y ago
    By this same token, we can never really understand anybody, since we never can fully understand what it's like to be them. Getting a little deep for me early on a Tuesday morning, jacques. If your name really is jacques (which I can't be sure of) :)
    - jacquesm 14y ago
      You can try to make it ridiculous but I actually was not aiming at anything 'deep' or philosophical, merely indicating that there is a problem with the method used to gain the required level of understanding. I think you can actually understand others, but you're going to have to interact (like we do right here) with those people that you wish to understand. Trying to understand people that have been dead for quite a while from (very terse) writings made in a stressful situation almost a century old is a very difficult undertaking. The lack of access to the subject, the distortion of social mores over time and more things like that make this from a practical point of view very hard. At best this will give you fractional insights into aspects of their character it will never allow you to say 'x is a jerk' or anything to that effect. There would have to be significant qualification of that statement.

e40 14y ago

Look around at all the exceptional people of our time. Jobs. Ellison. Every gifted, and I mean truly gifted, person I know or know about had a bizarre upbringing or background, and the vast majority of them are complete jerks. To rise above what is normal, it really helps if you are not given normal upbringing and stimuli early in life. And, when that is the case, you will likely step outside the bounds of what normal society views as acceptable behavior. Jobs is the best example from our time. By his own authorized biography, he was a complete asshole, but he did amazing things.

hnriot 14y ago
Apple did amazing things, it's somewhat unfair to give all the credit to Steve Jobs. NeXT didn't exactly do very well. There was something magical about the combination of people, from designers, to technologists to the supply chain optimization that made all the fancy ideas reality. It wasn't just Jobs, he steered the ship, he was its figurehead, but he, and his team did amazing things.

PeterisP 14y ago

The situation isn't [described as] "How can such a great man speak like this to one who loves him?" - it's the situation where the love-marriage has ended, and they are staying together for the kids and for practical reasons only. Read it as a "roommate agreement" of a sort.

Shorel 14y ago

"How can such a great man speak like this to one who loves him?" There's your problem. You are supposing the existence of a feeling where it was probably another, probably opposite, feeling. All your rant is based on a probably false premise.