4 ms·

The difference, and I think we as an industry will have to reconcile this depending on how advanced llms get, is that you don’t see the quality in handmade code

The difference, and I think we as an industry will have to reconcile this depending on how advanced llms get, is that you don’t see the quality in handmade code like you do in a high end watch or a luxury automobile or appliance. The veneer might be identical. It’s going to be tough to convince people that handmade software has added value or quality over slop. I still believe it does right now, but that might not always be true. And this is an industry that has pumped out a lot of sloppy code for decades, even before it was actual slop.

thr33 4mo ago
well this is not exactly unique to software. It is not a given that the 'handmade' nature of a product (luxury or otherwise) manifests in anything tangible or self-evidently superior. Luxury products in general overwhelmingly treat the crafted nature of the product as almost solely an investment in narrative (read: marketing) and market positioning, not an actual material outcome.
- pitched 4mo ago
  I like this take a lot. Posting a counter-example not because I disagree but because I think it’s interesting. Ghostty is a terminal emulator with a pretty good narrative. The author is very accessible on podcasts to go over the story. It is also actually very good though. I think the jump in performance and usability put it on the map before the narrative could help push it further. The product does have to actually be good before the crafted nature can be invested into.
thaumasiotes 4mo ago
> you don’t see the quality in handmade code like you do in a high end watch or a luxury automobile or appliance. But you can't see the "quality" in a high end watch either. They are inferior to low-end watches by every metric you can imagine.
- caspper69 4mo ago
  Maybe not the actual quality, but if I put a $50k Rolex on the table and a $50 Timex, 98/100 people will choose the Rolex, right or wrong.
  - thaumasiotes 4mo ago
    And if you put a $50k Rolex and a $20 Shmolex on the table?
ai_fry_ur_brain 4mo ago
What're you talking about? I can instantly detect if software was created with AI. It has a stench much like a cheap product who's materials off gassing, and Im certainly not using it over the handmade solution. There will always be two options, like in clothes or watches.
- caspper69 4mo ago
  Wow. At least I know who downvoted me. Maybe you should take a step back and realize that sofware developers themselves are not the primary purchasers of most software. The average joe or jane purchaser doesn't have some magical AI slop detector, especially if the UI is well done.
  - ai_fry_ur_brain 4mo ago
    I didnt downvote you, I cant. But I have yet to see a vibe coded project have good UI/UX. You'd be surprised how much thought and intention goes into making a great UI. An LLM simply cant, guided or unguided. I actually predict that frontend devs and designers will become more valuable in the coming years as people (stupidly) abandon these disciplines.

thr33 4mo ago

well this is not exactly unique to software. It is not a given that the 'handmade' nature of a product (luxury or otherwise) manifests in anything tangible or self-evidently superior. Luxury products in general overwhelmingly treat the crafted nature of the product as almost solely an investment in narrative (read: marketing) and market positioning, not an actual material outcome.

pitched 4mo ago
I like this take a lot. Posting a counter-example not because I disagree but because I think it’s interesting. Ghostty is a terminal emulator with a pretty good narrative. The author is very accessible on podcasts to go over the story. It is also actually very good though. I think the jump in performance and usability put it on the map before the narrative could help push it further. The product does have to actually be good before the crafted nature can be invested into.

thaumasiotes 4mo ago

> you don’t see the quality in handmade code like you do in a high end watch or a luxury automobile or appliance. But you can't see the "quality" in a high end watch either. They are inferior to low-end watches by every metric you can imagine.

caspper69 4mo ago
Maybe not the actual quality, but if I put a $50k Rolex on the table and a $50 Timex, 98/100 people will choose the Rolex, right or wrong.
- thaumasiotes 4mo ago
  And if you put a $50k Rolex and a $20 Shmolex on the table?

ai_fry_ur_brain 4mo ago

What're you talking about? I can instantly detect if software was created with AI. It has a stench much like a cheap product who's materials off gassing, and Im certainly not using it over the handmade solution. There will always be two options, like in clothes or watches.

caspper69 4mo ago
Wow. At least I know who downvoted me. Maybe you should take a step back and realize that sofware developers themselves are not the primary purchasers of most software. The average joe or jane purchaser doesn't have some magical AI slop detector, especially if the UI is well done.
- ai_fry_ur_brain 4mo ago
  I didnt downvote you, I cant. But I have yet to see a vibe coded project have good UI/UX. You'd be surprised how much thought and intention goes into making a great UI. An LLM simply cant, guided or unguided. I actually predict that frontend devs and designers will become more valuable in the coming years as people (stupidly) abandon these disciplines.