7 ms·

hate feels good. when you really hate someone (or a group of people) your hatred feels justified. no wonder "FAFO" has become such a popular acronym of late. n

hate feels good. when you really hate someone (or a group of people) your hatred feels justified. no wonder "FAFO" has become such a popular acronym of late. not that everyone (or even most people) believe what they're feeling is hatred. maybe you call it "deserved justice," or "an eye for an eye" or "harsh but necessary." but if you feel Schadenfreude - catharsis or pleasure from someone's suffering - then you're feeling hatred. as a trans woman, I (and my people) are often on the receiving end of this. to be clear, I'm not saying that any opposition to trans rights is borne of hatred, any more than any support of border enforcement is hatred. but if you feel that catharsis at the anguish of a group you oppose, be honest with yourself: why?

pstuart 5mo ago
> I'm not saying that any opposition to trans rights is borne of hatred As a cis man, I'll say that it likely is borne of hatred, but more so, as a tool to rile the masses to be angry enough to vote for whoever feeds that hate. The only good thing I can say about transphobia is that it's a sign that homophobia has pretty much run its course as a political wedge issue.
- sterlind 5mo ago
  > As a cis man, I'll say that it likely is borne of hatred, but more so, as a tool to rile the masses to be angry enough to vote for whoever feeds that hate. certainly a lot of it is, but I think there truly are people with sincere religious or moral beliefs that don't wish any ill on trans people despite opposing our decisions. acknowledging that is fairly key to building bridges, imo. (also because I expected to be downvoted to oblivion, so I tried to make my take as measured and nonthreatening as possible. I did not succeed, it appears.)
  - pstuart 5mo ago
    As anti-religion as I am, I never want to ascribe malice to anyone just because they are religious. But once they use their faith as a weapon against others it cross the line of decency. There's nothing wrong with feeling uncomfortable about the subject because to you it's not "normal", but thats on you if it is.
  - jfengel 5mo ago
    I am afraid I don't believe that. I think that practically all religious people who oppose trans rights do wish ill on trans people. I believe it's a problem that we're still focused on "building bridges". I think it's worth considering that they are actively opposed to having those bridges built. As long as we focus our activity on futile efforts, no progress will be made. Consider instead a plan that begins with: "Your goal is to hurt people. We will not allow that. We will fight for everybody's rights, and no, that does not include your right to hurt people. Your interests will be trampled on as long as they are about doing harm. When you are tired of losing, you will come to us seeking a compromise We will no longer come to you because we know it is a waste of time." Many religious people do support trans rights, and they are crucial allies. If they have opinions about what outcome best supports their religious beliefs and the rights of trans people, they should have a seat at the table. But it is past time to stop pretending that this will be resolved by talking with people who will not under any circumstances listen.
    - pstuart 5mo ago
      > Consider instead a plan that begins with: "Your goal is to hurt people. We will not allow that. We will fight for everybody's rights, and no, that does not include your right to hurt people. Your interests will be trampled on as long as they are about doing harm. When you are tired of losing, you will come to us seeking a compromise We will no longer come to you because we know it is a waste of time." Hate and stupidity are effectively weaponized and those that control that have the upper hand -- it's so much easier to lie and foment fear and anger than it is to discuss nuance and context. That said, something has to be done. We pretend to be logical animals but we're all effectively emotionally driven. There needs to be strong counter campaigns that can fight back, or better yet, neutralize the lies before the hate can take place.
- bfinb 5mo ago
  More often than not, such opposition is due to the negative impact on the rights of women and girls. Particularly around the removal, in law and policy, of single-sex spaces and other such provisions.
ndiddy 5mo ago
If you're a politician in Alabama, and you can propagandize your constituents so their top issue is stopping the six trans girls in the state who want to join their high school track team from being able to do so, it means that they won't care as much about issues that actually matter in their lives, like why they haven't gotten a raise in 5 years or why the only hospital less than 3 hours away from them has shut down. I think this is a large factor in why conservative media works the way it does.
- Avicebron 5mo ago
  It's not just conservative media, mainstream democrats also made identity politics the highlight of their campaigns when the constituents also hadn't gotten a raise in 5 years and don't have a hospital within a 3 hour drive. Doesn't anyone remember how Trump 2 happened? Refocusing on identity issues instead of class/wealth inequality issues is how we are going to get Trump 3.
- sterlind 5mo ago
  right. politicians love to sow hatred. it's easier to promise to make the constituents' enemies suffer than to promise to make their consituents' lives better. plus the polarization leads to safer votes ("I don't agree with everything Mr. X is doing, but damned if I'll let Mr. Y win") Hitler famously stoked hatred for Jews to increase his popularity. I know that Germany was already fairly antisemitic prior to Hitler's rise to power, but I wonder how many "moderates" felt Schadenfreude towards the Jews by Kristalnacht. how fast did the propaganda take effect?
  - ndiddy 5mo ago
    If I'm remembering correctly, the reaction to Kristalnacht was largely negative. The Germans were largely fine with being antisemetic in general, and with the abstract concept of displacing and killing the Jews, but when they had to directly observe innocent people getting brutalized and murdered they didn't support it. I think this is why the Holocaust was run the way it was, with the forced labor and killing happening outside the view of the general public. They all knew it was happening, but they didn't have to watch anyone getting forced into the gas chambers. A less extreme example of this is how Trump ran on the idea of conducting mass deportations of illegal immigrants, but when the general public saw ICE actually carrying out the mass deportations, public opinion turned against them.

pstuart 5mo ago

> I'm not saying that any opposition to trans rights is borne of hatred As a cis man, I'll say that it likely is borne of hatred, but more so, as a tool to rile the masses to be angry enough to vote for whoever feeds that hate. The only good thing I can say about transphobia is that it's a sign that homophobia has pretty much run its course as a political wedge issue.

sterlind 5mo ago
> As a cis man, I'll say that it likely is borne of hatred, but more so, as a tool to rile the masses to be angry enough to vote for whoever feeds that hate. certainly a lot of it is, but I think there truly are people with sincere religious or moral beliefs that don't wish any ill on trans people despite opposing our decisions. acknowledging that is fairly key to building bridges, imo. (also because I expected to be downvoted to oblivion, so I tried to make my take as measured and nonthreatening as possible. I did not succeed, it appears.)
- pstuart 5mo ago
  As anti-religion as I am, I never want to ascribe malice to anyone just because they are religious. But once they use their faith as a weapon against others it cross the line of decency. There's nothing wrong with feeling uncomfortable about the subject because to you it's not "normal", but thats on you if it is.
- jfengel 5mo ago
  I am afraid I don't believe that. I think that practically all religious people who oppose trans rights do wish ill on trans people. I believe it's a problem that we're still focused on "building bridges". I think it's worth considering that they are actively opposed to having those bridges built. As long as we focus our activity on futile efforts, no progress will be made. Consider instead a plan that begins with: "Your goal is to hurt people. We will not allow that. We will fight for everybody's rights, and no, that does not include your right to hurt people. Your interests will be trampled on as long as they are about doing harm. When you are tired of losing, you will come to us seeking a compromise We will no longer come to you because we know it is a waste of time." Many religious people do support trans rights, and they are crucial allies. If they have opinions about what outcome best supports their religious beliefs and the rights of trans people, they should have a seat at the table. But it is past time to stop pretending that this will be resolved by talking with people who will not under any circumstances listen.
  - pstuart 5mo ago
    > Consider instead a plan that begins with: "Your goal is to hurt people. We will not allow that. We will fight for everybody's rights, and no, that does not include your right to hurt people. Your interests will be trampled on as long as they are about doing harm. When you are tired of losing, you will come to us seeking a compromise We will no longer come to you because we know it is a waste of time." Hate and stupidity are effectively weaponized and those that control that have the upper hand -- it's so much easier to lie and foment fear and anger than it is to discuss nuance and context. That said, something has to be done. We pretend to be logical animals but we're all effectively emotionally driven. There needs to be strong counter campaigns that can fight back, or better yet, neutralize the lies before the hate can take place.
bfinb 5mo ago
More often than not, such opposition is due to the negative impact on the rights of women and girls. Particularly around the removal, in law and policy, of single-sex spaces and other such provisions.

ndiddy 5mo ago

If you're a politician in Alabama, and you can propagandize your constituents so their top issue is stopping the six trans girls in the state who want to join their high school track team from being able to do so, it means that they won't care as much about issues that actually matter in their lives, like why they haven't gotten a raise in 5 years or why the only hospital less than 3 hours away from them has shut down. I think this is a large factor in why conservative media works the way it does.

Avicebron 5mo ago
It's not just conservative media, mainstream democrats also made identity politics the highlight of their campaigns when the constituents also hadn't gotten a raise in 5 years and don't have a hospital within a 3 hour drive. Doesn't anyone remember how Trump 2 happened? Refocusing on identity issues instead of class/wealth inequality issues is how we are going to get Trump 3.
sterlind 5mo ago
right. politicians love to sow hatred. it's easier to promise to make the constituents' enemies suffer than to promise to make their consituents' lives better. plus the polarization leads to safer votes ("I don't agree with everything Mr. X is doing, but damned if I'll let Mr. Y win") Hitler famously stoked hatred for Jews to increase his popularity. I know that Germany was already fairly antisemitic prior to Hitler's rise to power, but I wonder how many "moderates" felt Schadenfreude towards the Jews by Kristalnacht. how fast did the propaganda take effect?
- ndiddy 5mo ago
  If I'm remembering correctly, the reaction to Kristalnacht was largely negative. The Germans were largely fine with being antisemetic in general, and with the abstract concept of displacing and killing the Jews, but when they had to directly observe innocent people getting brutalized and murdered they didn't support it. I think this is why the Holocaust was run the way it was, with the forced labor and killing happening outside the view of the general public. They all knew it was happening, but they didn't have to watch anyone getting forced into the gas chambers. A less extreme example of this is how Trump ran on the idea of conducting mass deportations of illegal immigrants, but when the general public saw ICE actually carrying out the mass deportations, public opinion turned against them.