4 ms·

Odds are high this will get flagged, but it's worthy of discussion here. The problem is the discussion is done purely on emotional terms (e.g., "bad people com

by pstuart 4mo ago

Odds are high this will get flagged, but it's worthy of discussion here. The problem is the discussion is done purely on emotional terms (e.g., "bad people come in and hurt good people") vs what are the benefits and what are the costs and how do they add up? Also, how do we have a system that ensure that the process is optimized to maximize the benefit and minimize the cost?

sterlind 4mo ago
selectively going after the bad people - violent criminals and the like - seems like a good start. CBP/HSI is currently driven by a quota system, to my knowledge. quotas incentivize going after the most law-abiding people because they're safer and easier to nab. a lot could be gained simply by rewarding ICE agents based on how dangerous the people they apprehend are, rather than measuring headcount.
- pstuart 4mo ago
  I think one would be hard-pressed to find anyone who would say "please let dangerous people in". There is a system in place to address that, but no doubt could be improved. And for those who had family arrive much earlier (such as myself), the criteria for entry was incredibly lax. My mother's side came in the early 1900's so was subject to the 1906 Naturalization Act which basically said "you have to speak english and tell us about family members". My father's side was here early enough to basically just be here long enough and then it's a done deal. As the OP states, these pogroms are rooted in racism and otherism, and the cruelty is the point. We can do better than that.
kashunstva 4mo ago
Given that the people being rounded up in extrajudicial raids and held in deplorable conditions are actual humans with feelings, families, friends, memories, communities, how can emotion not be at the centre? Yes, policy must be considered. But the main design consideration here seems to be inflicting terror. The current administration has shown no willingness to step back and think this through in the systematic way you suggest.
- pstuart 4mo ago
  The emotional pain from the evil being brought about by the current regime is absolutely valid and I'm not suggesting that it be ignored. But they also justify it on purely emotional terms to their supporters: you are in danger from brown people that want to rape and kill you and then eat your pets. Zero facts are ever involved. Even though facts are denied by every single supporter, it should be the foundation of policy proposals (i.e., it should be a valid proposal), and then layer on the emotion. I have yet to engage with any MAGA person who can actually discuss issues based on facts and acknowledge anything that "their side" does as being wrong. Discussion is now impossible and it breaks my heart because watching my fellow citizens gleefully embrace fascism has destroyed my faith in humanity.

by pstuart 4mo ago

sterlind 4mo ago

selectively going after the bad people - violent criminals and the like - seems like a good start. CBP/HSI is currently driven by a quota system, to my knowledge. quotas incentivize going after the most law-abiding people because they're safer and easier to nab. a lot could be gained simply by rewarding ICE agents based on how dangerous the people they apprehend are, rather than measuring headcount.

pstuart 4mo ago
I think one would be hard-pressed to find anyone who would say "please let dangerous people in". There is a system in place to address that, but no doubt could be improved. And for those who had family arrive much earlier (such as myself), the criteria for entry was incredibly lax. My mother's side came in the early 1900's so was subject to the 1906 Naturalization Act which basically said "you have to speak english and tell us about family members". My father's side was here early enough to basically just be here long enough and then it's a done deal. As the OP states, these pogroms are rooted in racism and otherism, and the cruelty is the point. We can do better than that.

kashunstva 4mo ago

Given that the people being rounded up in extrajudicial raids and held in deplorable conditions are actual humans with feelings, families, friends, memories, communities, how can emotion not be at the centre? Yes, policy must be considered. But the main design consideration here seems to be inflicting terror. The current administration has shown no willingness to step back and think this through in the systematic way you suggest.

pstuart 4mo ago
The emotional pain from the evil being brought about by the current regime is absolutely valid and I'm not suggesting that it be ignored. But they also justify it on purely emotional terms to their supporters: you are in danger from brown people that want to rape and kill you and then eat your pets. Zero facts are ever involved. Even though facts are denied by every single supporter, it should be the foundation of policy proposals (i.e., it should be a valid proposal), and then layer on the emotion. I have yet to engage with any MAGA person who can actually discuss issues based on facts and acknowledge anything that "their side" does as being wrong. Discussion is now impossible and it breaks my heart because watching my fellow citizens gleefully embrace fascism has destroyed my faith in humanity.