36 ms·

not with the requirements they are asking, which tells you that the equity stake will be some measly amount * Have at least 1 year of experience with Ruby

by vaksel 18y ago

not with the requirements they are asking, which tells you that the equity stake will be some measly amount * Have at least 1 year of experience with Ruby / Rails. * Have experience with MySQL and JavaScript * Enjoy working in a startup environment

tptacek 18y ago
Oh. The other title they might be looking for is "sucker".
- JayNeely 18y ago
  :-/ Insults aren't appreciated when I'm posting a question about how to make sure we're offering value to people. Unless this became digg when I wasn't looking, and insults are cool as long as they're funny?
  - tptacek 18y ago
    My constructive advice on how to offer value to someone you bring on as a key developer is, pay them. What's the range of equity you were thinking of offering this person?
  - ryanwaggoner 18y ago
    Ironic, because the very low bar for qualified applicants to be your "lead developer" screams that you're looking for a code monkey to take advantage of, which most people on here probably find insulting.
  - gamache 18y ago
    You want to offer value? Pay your fucking employees.
  - the_pepsi_can 18y ago
    I agree with the concept that you can not get an intelligent engineer to work for equity only with out become a founding member. However, I disagree with the notion that it is simply because of the lack of a fancy title. It is because of the level of sacrifice one has to make. Ones livelihood becomes intrinsically tied to the success of the company. Additionally the work load would be somewhat equivalent to the other founding members. Any reasonable person then would conclude that they should reap the same rewards as the other members.
    - swombat 18y ago
      However, I disagree with the notion that it is simply because of the lack of a fancy title. It's nothing to do with the title. It's to do with the level of equity involved. Someone with 2% equity is a sucker. Someone with 30% equity (in a 3-people start-up) is a founder. If you're looking to hire someone who has the ability to pull a whole start-up out of their ass (through their competence and extremely hard work), then it means they could just as well work on their own start-up (where they'd have 100% equity). So why should they join you, unless you're offering a significant portion of ownership and you add value to that start-up equivalent to your share ownership?
JayNeely 18y ago
The requirements aren't an indication of equity, at all. We're looking for someone who's skilled, not necessarily experienced. Room to grow and a chance to prove yourself is one of the opportunities a startup offers, after all.
- tptacek 18y ago
  For a person who can walk in the door as a key developer, there are plenty of paying projects that can make the same promises...
- ryanwaggoner 18y ago
  We're looking for someone who's skilled, not necessarily experienced. Are you sure you have the ability to differentiate between the two? On the whole, I'm pretty skeptical of startups that have no revenue or funding and are looking for an equity-only lead developer. It sounds like a bunch of non-technical people trying to get a code monkey for a few percent. Hopefully I'm wrong.
- Harkins 18y ago
  The requirements don't, however, say that growing and proving one's self will result in increased equity. In programming, usually you have a first job where you grow and prove yourself, and then go get a job for a significantly increased income.
- swombat 18y ago
  If the guy is going to be your technology lead, and he's a founder, then he's clearly your cofounder CTO. You might want to read this article I wrote on the subject of technology recruitment in early start-ups. http://inter-sections.net/2008/09/03/technology-recruitment-in-an-early-start-up http://inter-sections.net/2008/09/03/technology-recruitment-... If you don't have anyone on your current founder team capable of building the product, you don't have a start-up yet. This guy, if/when you find him, will change that. I suggest equal equity with you.
- bprater 18y ago
  Bringing in someone who doesn't have years of experience is going to bite you later on. (I say this from experience: I was co-founder of a tech company in '99 and I simply didn't have the experience to build the foundation cleanly.) These folks can come in with half-cocked knowledge and leave you with a trail of misery later on. Leave the opportunity for hired guns the lead brings in. The lead needs to be experienced.

by vaksel 18y ago

tptacek 18y ago

Oh. The other title they might be looking for is "sucker".

JayNeely 18y ago
:-/ Insults aren't appreciated when I'm posting a question about how to make sure we're offering value to people. Unless this became digg when I wasn't looking, and insults are cool as long as they're funny?
- tptacek 18y ago
  My constructive advice on how to offer value to someone you bring on as a key developer is, pay them. What's the range of equity you were thinking of offering this person?
- ryanwaggoner 18y ago
  Ironic, because the very low bar for qualified applicants to be your "lead developer" screams that you're looking for a code monkey to take advantage of, which most people on here probably find insulting.
- gamache 18y ago
  You want to offer value? Pay your fucking employees.
- the_pepsi_can 18y ago
  I agree with the concept that you can not get an intelligent engineer to work for equity only with out become a founding member. However, I disagree with the notion that it is simply because of the lack of a fancy title. It is because of the level of sacrifice one has to make. Ones livelihood becomes intrinsically tied to the success of the company. Additionally the work load would be somewhat equivalent to the other founding members. Any reasonable person then would conclude that they should reap the same rewards as the other members.
  - swombat 18y ago
    However, I disagree with the notion that it is simply because of the lack of a fancy title. It's nothing to do with the title. It's to do with the level of equity involved. Someone with 2% equity is a sucker. Someone with 30% equity (in a 3-people start-up) is a founder. If you're looking to hire someone who has the ability to pull a whole start-up out of their ass (through their competence and extremely hard work), then it means they could just as well work on their own start-up (where they'd have 100% equity). So why should they join you, unless you're offering a significant portion of ownership and you add value to that start-up equivalent to your share ownership?

JayNeely 18y ago

The requirements aren't an indication of equity, at all. We're looking for someone who's skilled, not necessarily experienced. Room to grow and a chance to prove yourself is one of the opportunities a startup offers, after all.

tptacek 18y ago
For a person who can walk in the door as a key developer, there are plenty of paying projects that can make the same promises...
ryanwaggoner 18y ago
We're looking for someone who's skilled, not necessarily experienced. Are you sure you have the ability to differentiate between the two? On the whole, I'm pretty skeptical of startups that have no revenue or funding and are looking for an equity-only lead developer. It sounds like a bunch of non-technical people trying to get a code monkey for a few percent. Hopefully I'm wrong.
Harkins 18y ago
The requirements don't, however, say that growing and proving one's self will result in increased equity. In programming, usually you have a first job where you grow and prove yourself, and then go get a job for a significantly increased income.
swombat 18y ago
If the guy is going to be your technology lead, and he's a founder, then he's clearly your cofounder CTO. You might want to read this article I wrote on the subject of technology recruitment in early start-ups. http://inter-sections.net/2008/09/03/technology-recruitment-in-an-early-start-up http://inter-sections.net/2008/09/03/technology-recruitment-... If you don't have anyone on your current founder team capable of building the product, you don't have a start-up yet. This guy, if/when you find him, will change that. I suggest equal equity with you.
bprater 18y ago
Bringing in someone who doesn't have years of experience is going to bite you later on. (I say this from experience: I was co-founder of a tech company in '99 and I simply didn't have the experience to build the foundation cleanly.) These folks can come in with half-cocked knowledge and leave you with a trail of misery later on. Leave the opportunity for hired guns the lead brings in. The lead needs to be experienced.