7 ms·

I think Mozilla is misapplying its development time on stuff like social integration [1] and Firefox OS [2]. I would say these types of projects would be fine i

I think Mozilla is misapplying its development time on stuff like social integration [1] and Firefox OS [2]. I would say these types of projects would be fine if they weren't ignoring their mainstay, by first canceling the process per tab project Electrolysis and now abandoning 64bit builds on Windows says to me that Mozilla seriously has its priorities screwed up. The web browser has become the most important app on the PC, with more and more web pages demanding more and more resources, I really wish Mozilla would refocus on making the best web browser available. A few weeks ago I tried to delete some of my history from Firefox, I opened the history window, hit Shift and selected about 6 months of history and hit delete, and it took Firefox about an hour to delete the history all the while the UI going from responding to not responding back and forth. Firefox has some serious performance problems. [1]. https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2012/11/20/firefox-introduces-new-social-api-and-previews-integration-with-facebook/ https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2012/11/20/firefox-introduces-... [2]. http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefoxos/ http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefoxos/

jonchang 14y ago
Developers are not fungible. The social integration work was mostly HTML5 and JavaScript, and Firefox OS is partly kernel and OS work (B2G), and partly HTML5/JavaScript work (Gaia). 64-bit builds on Windows requires Windows developers, who are focusing on the Metro UI. EDIT: I'm responding to your edit here: > A few weeks ago I tried to delete some of my history from Firefox, I opened the history window, hit Shift and selected about 6 months of history and hit delete, and it took Firefox about an hour to delete the history all the while the UI going from responding to not responding back and forth. I would imagine the Firefox developers spend their time optimizing the parts of their browser that users would most likely use. I suspect that they are not terribly worried about an action that users would take (at most) once every six months. EDIT2: I guess I'll respond to this one too: > The web browser has become the most important app on the PC, with more and more web pages demanding more and more resources, I really wish Mozilla would refocus on making the best web browser available. Making the best web browser is not Mozilla's goal. Their goal is to "promote openness, innovation & opportunity on the Web" [1]. Integrating social features into the browser is part of that, in the sense that users will be able to control their social presence from their browser, rather than being locked-in to a specific social provider's web site. Mozilla's actions are not inconsistent with their stated mission. (Whether you agree with that mission is another argument entirely). [1]: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/mission/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/mission/
- joenathan 14y ago
  According to W3Schools[1] ~84% of web traffic comes from Windows users. In light of that wouldn't it make more sense to hire more Windows developers? If cuts have to be made it doesn't seem reasonable to make cuts to your main source of revenue. edit: In response to your edit: >Making the best web browser is not Mozilla's goal. Their goal is to "promote openness, innovation & opportunity on the Web" If Mozilla's goal isn't to make the best web browser then no one will end up using their browser, and if no one uses their browser then they wont be able to "promote openness, innovation & opportunity on the Web", no market share = no voice. During the days of IE6's dominance Mozilla got its large user base because it was the best browser available. Mozilla is in danger of hemorrhaging users if it continues making these sort of decisions. Us "hackers" got Mozilla its user base, we started using it first and convinced our family, friends, workmates/workplaces to switch. If the power users leave, the rest will be soon to follow. [1]http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp
  - iamthad 14y ago
    This is off-topic, but you should know that there are a number of significant issues with W3Schools that prevent it from being a reputable source: http://w3fools.com/ http://w3fools.com/
    - joenathan 14y ago
      Thanks, I didn't know W3Schools wasn't trust worthy.
  - astrodust 14y ago
    No offense, but anyone who visits w3schools is probably clueless and lost. It's a terrible resource that needs to be destroyed, scrubbed from the search results like Stack Overflow did to Experts Exchange, all for the sake of humanity. I'm surprised only 84% of the traffic is Windows users.
    - robryan 14y ago
fzzzy 14y ago
Firefox OS is using the Electrolysis code, and since it is all the same core, Gecko, this means Firefox Desktop and Firefox Android are benefiting from engineers that were allocated to Firefox OS continuing to make Electrolysis better for all three targets. There are plenty of engineers still working on Projects Snappy and MemShrink who are looking directly at the metrics related to the performance problems you describe. The places database is known to have serious performance problems, as you discovered. It is difficult to reengineer but it is being worked on. Finally, 64 bit windows builds are not being abandoned. They are being disabled for a time until the issues with marking bugs as 64 or 32 bit and other administrative details are ironed out. These are my own perceptions and opinions about the situation.
- ldng 14y ago
  Thank for enlightening us on the matter. Well, maybe that would be worth a blog post ? What about a quarterly "state of the union" to let people see the big picture instead of apparently unrelated and confusing press release ? Not that it's a due but it would certainly help your communication ;-)
astrodust 14y ago
Isn't the Firefox browser, and through it the search engine traffic which they sell the rights to, the thing that keeps their company running? You'd think they'd be focused on making a better browser, clawing more market share, and cementing their presence in the browser space. I used to use Firefox almost exclusively, but lately Chrome and Safari have filled that need. Breaking compatibility with old plug-ins might have been necessary, but it made switching a no-brainer.
pbiggar 14y ago
Mobile is very much the future. Windows desktop is both the past and present. The browser has already won the desktop, but its losing on mobile, which is why its so important to focus on Firefox OS, and not so important to focus on Windows desktop.
j_col 14y ago
I could not agree with this more, Mozilla is making some strange strategic decisions these days which really make me worry about it's future, because I am a big supporter of Mozilla in general. I just wish they would "stick to the knitting" and make the best browser they possibly can for multiple platforms.
wyuenho 14y ago
I entirely agree with you, but then again, I don't think Mozilla has always had their priorities straight. My favorite example is the 3D view in the inspector. At the end of 2012, you still can't live edit in Markup Panel in any meaningful way, and yet you have a 3D view. I would LOVE to use the inspect bar if it was usable, but now I'm stuck with it and 8 other items in the Web Developer submenu and Firebug. Firebug's been around forever and does everything the other 9 items can and cannot do. Just bundle it into Firefox already and move on to other things geez...
kamjam 14y ago
A few weeks ago I tried to delete some of my history from Firefox... Sounds like it would have been quicker to uninstall and reinstall the whole thing. Crazy!
zobzu 14y ago
Have you noticed that the social integration skipped the usual release steps and went directly to beta? Kind of sad. Mozilla is misguided.

jonchang 14y ago

Developers are not fungible. The social integration work was mostly HTML5 and JavaScript, and Firefox OS is partly kernel and OS work (B2G), and partly HTML5/JavaScript work (Gaia). 64-bit builds on Windows requires Windows developers, who are focusing on the Metro UI. EDIT: I'm responding to your edit here: > A few weeks ago I tried to delete some of my history from Firefox, I opened the history window, hit Shift and selected about 6 months of history and hit delete, and it took Firefox about an hour to delete the history all the while the UI going from responding to not responding back and forth. I would imagine the Firefox developers spend their time optimizing the parts of their browser that users would most likely use. I suspect that they are not terribly worried about an action that users would take (at most) once every six months. EDIT2: I guess I'll respond to this one too: > The web browser has become the most important app on the PC, with more and more web pages demanding more and more resources, I really wish Mozilla would refocus on making the best web browser available. Making the best web browser is not Mozilla's goal. Their goal is to "promote openness, innovation & opportunity on the Web" [1]. Integrating social features into the browser is part of that, in the sense that users will be able to control their social presence from their browser, rather than being locked-in to a specific social provider's web site. Mozilla's actions are not inconsistent with their stated mission. (Whether you agree with that mission is another argument entirely). [1]: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/mission/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/mission/

joenathan 14y ago
According to W3Schools[1] ~84% of web traffic comes from Windows users. In light of that wouldn't it make more sense to hire more Windows developers? If cuts have to be made it doesn't seem reasonable to make cuts to your main source of revenue. edit: In response to your edit: >Making the best web browser is not Mozilla's goal. Their goal is to "promote openness, innovation & opportunity on the Web" If Mozilla's goal isn't to make the best web browser then no one will end up using their browser, and if no one uses their browser then they wont be able to "promote openness, innovation & opportunity on the Web", no market share = no voice. During the days of IE6's dominance Mozilla got its large user base because it was the best browser available. Mozilla is in danger of hemorrhaging users if it continues making these sort of decisions. Us "hackers" got Mozilla its user base, we started using it first and convinced our family, friends, workmates/workplaces to switch. If the power users leave, the rest will be soon to follow. [1]http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp
- iamthad 14y ago
  This is off-topic, but you should know that there are a number of significant issues with W3Schools that prevent it from being a reputable source: http://w3fools.com/ http://w3fools.com/
  - joenathan 14y ago
    Thanks, I didn't know W3Schools wasn't trust worthy.
- astrodust 14y ago
  No offense, but anyone who visits w3schools is probably clueless and lost. It's a terrible resource that needs to be destroyed, scrubbed from the search results like Stack Overflow did to Experts Exchange, all for the sake of humanity. I'm surprised only 84% of the traffic is Windows users.
  - robryan 14y ago

fzzzy 14y ago

Firefox OS is using the Electrolysis code, and since it is all the same core, Gecko, this means Firefox Desktop and Firefox Android are benefiting from engineers that were allocated to Firefox OS continuing to make Electrolysis better for all three targets. There are plenty of engineers still working on Projects Snappy and MemShrink who are looking directly at the metrics related to the performance problems you describe. The places database is known to have serious performance problems, as you discovered. It is difficult to reengineer but it is being worked on. Finally, 64 bit windows builds are not being abandoned. They are being disabled for a time until the issues with marking bugs as 64 or 32 bit and other administrative details are ironed out. These are my own perceptions and opinions about the situation.

ldng 14y ago
Thank for enlightening us on the matter. Well, maybe that would be worth a blog post ? What about a quarterly "state of the union" to let people see the big picture instead of apparently unrelated and confusing press release ? Not that it's a due but it would certainly help your communication ;-)

astrodust 14y ago

Isn't the Firefox browser, and through it the search engine traffic which they sell the rights to, the thing that keeps their company running? You'd think they'd be focused on making a better browser, clawing more market share, and cementing their presence in the browser space. I used to use Firefox almost exclusively, but lately Chrome and Safari have filled that need. Breaking compatibility with old plug-ins might have been necessary, but it made switching a no-brainer.

pbiggar 14y ago

Mobile is very much the future. Windows desktop is both the past and present. The browser has already won the desktop, but its losing on mobile, which is why its so important to focus on Firefox OS, and not so important to focus on Windows desktop.

j_col 14y ago

I could not agree with this more, Mozilla is making some strange strategic decisions these days which really make me worry about it's future, because I am a big supporter of Mozilla in general. I just wish they would "stick to the knitting" and make the best browser they possibly can for multiple platforms.

wyuenho 14y ago

I entirely agree with you, but then again, I don't think Mozilla has always had their priorities straight. My favorite example is the 3D view in the inspector. At the end of 2012, you still can't live edit in Markup Panel in any meaningful way, and yet you have a 3D view. I would LOVE to use the inspect bar if it was usable, but now I'm stuck with it and 8 other items in the Web Developer submenu and Firebug. Firebug's been around forever and does everything the other 9 items can and cannot do. Just bundle it into Firefox already and move on to other things geez...

kamjam 14y ago

A few weeks ago I tried to delete some of my history from Firefox... Sounds like it would have been quicker to uninstall and reinstall the whole thing. Crazy!

zobzu 14y ago

Have you noticed that the social integration skipped the usual release steps and went directly to beta? Kind of sad. Mozilla is misguided.