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Now that we have AI, can we go back to real apps and native tech stacks? And revert the browser to a text-display interface?

by rayiner 5mo ago

VMG 5mo ago
Unfortunately, real apps and native tech stacks can not only write data to your SSD, they can usually write data to the user directory however they want and they can read it as well! Browsers are at least somewhat sandboxed
- hollerith 5mo ago
  This is a Linux-centric take. It does not apply for example to iPadOS or to AluminiumOS (coming soon to a Googlebook near you). It applies less and less over time to MacOS. Yes, if one is committed to the standard Linux desktop, then one must hope that any proprietary apps one might need will continue to be available through the browser, but I'm ready to let the standard Linux desktop go (not right now, but eventually).
  - lxgr 5mo ago
    It very much applies to macOS, or do you know of a way to know what permissions a sideloaded macOS application will have before opening it that's accessible to regular users?
    - hollerith 5mo ago
      The very fact that you've qualified your question with "sideloaded" suggests that you are already aware that a non-sideloaded MacOS app is installed into a sandbox that is much more secure than anything available on a standard Linux desktop excepting possibly Qubes and Secureblue, and hardly anyone uses Qubes or Secureblue -- probably for very good reasons.
      - lxgr 5mo ago
        Yes, and I'm also aware that most macOS apps are still only available as a sideload, where sandboxing is optional and importantly not user visible before the app runs.
- rayiner 5mo ago
  But you need relatively few native apps with those capabilities, in contrast to visiting many different websites for content consumption.
- MisterTea 5mo ago
  Why not sandbox the process then?
  - VMG 5mo ago
    I don't know, maybe something about backwards compatibility, maybe nobody can agree on how to do it correctly. It hasn't happened for decades, so I'm not going to hold my breath.
  - lxgr 5mo ago
    Sure, can you propose an equally mature and battle-tested sandbox, ideally one with multiple implementations on a wide variety of OSes?
freedomben 5mo ago
> can we go back to real apps and native tech stacks Please God, no. If you're worried about the invasiveness of browser-based apps, native is out of the frying pan and into the fire
- rayiner 5mo ago
  Except you’re not going to install native apps for the vast majority of things you use a browser for. You’re going to use the browser for content consumption and native apps for a few things that need system access.
  - lxgr 5mo ago
    Are you arguing that it's better to install a small handful of highly privileged applications as opposed to none?
lxgr 5mo ago
Sure, once we have equivalent strong sandboxing for third-party apps I'm down to install random ones rather than visiting a website.

Now that we have AI, can we go back to real apps and native tech stacks? And revert the browser to a text-display interface?

by rayiner 5mo ago

Now that we have AI, can we go back to real apps and native tech stacks? And revert the browser to a text-display interface?

VMG 5mo ago

Unfortunately, real apps and native tech stacks can not only write data to your SSD, they can usually write data to the user directory however they want and they can read it as well! Browsers are at least somewhat sandboxed

hollerith 5mo ago
This is a Linux-centric take. It does not apply for example to iPadOS or to AluminiumOS (coming soon to a Googlebook near you). It applies less and less over time to MacOS. Yes, if one is committed to the standard Linux desktop, then one must hope that any proprietary apps one might need will continue to be available through the browser, but I'm ready to let the standard Linux desktop go (not right now, but eventually).
- lxgr 5mo ago
  It very much applies to macOS, or do you know of a way to know what permissions a sideloaded macOS application will have before opening it that's accessible to regular users?
  - hollerith 5mo ago
    The very fact that you've qualified your question with "sideloaded" suggests that you are already aware that a non-sideloaded MacOS app is installed into a sandbox that is much more secure than anything available on a standard Linux desktop excepting possibly Qubes and Secureblue, and hardly anyone uses Qubes or Secureblue -- probably for very good reasons.
    - lxgr 5mo ago
      Yes, and I'm also aware that most macOS apps are still only available as a sideload, where sandboxing is optional and importantly not user visible before the app runs.
rayiner 5mo ago
But you need relatively few native apps with those capabilities, in contrast to visiting many different websites for content consumption.
MisterTea 5mo ago
Why not sandbox the process then?
- VMG 5mo ago
  I don't know, maybe something about backwards compatibility, maybe nobody can agree on how to do it correctly. It hasn't happened for decades, so I'm not going to hold my breath.
- lxgr 5mo ago
  Sure, can you propose an equally mature and battle-tested sandbox, ideally one with multiple implementations on a wide variety of OSes?

freedomben 5mo ago

> can we go back to real apps and native tech stacks Please God, no. If you're worried about the invasiveness of browser-based apps, native is out of the frying pan and into the fire

rayiner 5mo ago
Except you’re not going to install native apps for the vast majority of things you use a browser for. You’re going to use the browser for content consumption and native apps for a few things that need system access.
- lxgr 5mo ago
  Are you arguing that it's better to install a small handful of highly privileged applications as opposed to none?

lxgr 5mo ago

Sure, once we have equivalent strong sandboxing for third-party apps I'm down to install random ones rather than visiting a website.