4 ms·

The new Star Wars movie grossed $81.6 million at its debut last weekend, for comparison.

by prvc 4mo ago

mrandish 4mo ago
The Mandalorian TV series wasn't bad but the Star Wars franchise has been in reset/turnaround for ~7 YEARS (since the last movie). It's incomprehensible that Disney bet their relaunch on a spin-off streaming series based on a tertiary character miraculously swimming back upstream from online to cinema. The two leads are a guy you never see and a small puppet (with the big reveal new character being a CGI alien). As great as they were, C3PO, Yoda and Chewbacca couldn't have carried Empire Strikes Back as the leads. What was Disney thinking?
- overfeed 4mo ago
  > What was Disney thinking? "We continue to make a shit-load of money off toys and merchandizing"
- ndsipa_pomu 4mo ago
  Andor is the now the gold standard for Star Wars productions - serious themes, adult oriented, great writing and top tier acting. The Mandalorian was definitely aimed at a younger audience.
  - bluefirebrand 4mo ago
    I think Mando season 1 is what Star Wars should be. A space themed throwback to old pulp novels, cowboys and samurai and pirates, with a veneer of lasers and spaceships painted on top. Andor is great, don't get me wrong. But Star Wars is best when it's pulp adventure stuff.
    - ndsipa_pomu 4mo ago
      Well George Lucas did borrow a lot of stuff from samurai films (The Hidden Fortress being the main one), so that is a return to its roots. Personally, I think that Firefly did the cowboys in space a lot better, but maybe that's due to better writing. I did enjoy the Mandalorian, but it's a bit too shallow.
      - mrandish 4mo ago
        +1 for Firefly nailing the 'cowboys in space' vibe.
      - bluefirebrand 4mo ago
        The concept in Mando is pretty much a direct rip of Lone Wolf and Cub, so I think it's really doing "Samurai in Space" more than "Cowboys" Of course the cowboy and samurai pulp genres are pretty similar and borrowed a lot from each other. Lone Gunslinger with a code of honor versus a Lone Swordsman with a code of honor
        ndsipa_pomu 4mo ago
        I hadn't realised the link between those two, but you're right - I don't know why that never occurred to me as I do enjoy a lot of Asian cinema.
    - mrandish 4mo ago
      > But Star Wars is best when it's pulp adventure stuff. This is the way. I saw the first Star Wars the week it opened as a tween and it rocked my world. Both SW and Raiders of the Lost Ark had a clear vision of building on the proven structure of the old B&W movie serials like Flash Gordon but updating them with modern storytelling tools and larger budgets. It was a truly great concept and then Empire raised the stakes higher and even better. You're right that Mando Season 1 was an attempt to get back to the original concept and it got close. Skeleton Crew is perhaps the only other SW series where the core idea was to update a proven structure of the past in a pure and focused way - except it chose a different genre than 1930s serials. Initially I didn't know what to make of Skeleton Crew but once I got that it was building on the 1980s tween adventures like Goonies, I appreciated how it absolutely nailed what it was going for. My own kids are now older than Skeleton Crew's target audience, so it obviously wasn't for me but I applaud it as Disney's only other pure attempt at applying the 'big idea' that made OG SW great to another genre. As a sci-fan who loved the original IP to the point of reverence, even bad Star Wars is usually at least interesting but it can also be frustrating when it evokes echoes of the OG by being set in the same universe without even trying to be great in the same ways as the OG. For example, Andor is unique in being a spin-off that is actually very good but I'd argue none of the things that make it so good require being set in the Star Wars universe. It might be even better if it had been unshackled from the rules of the Star Wars cinematic universe and was a new, original sci-fi IP.
      - bluefirebrand 4mo ago
        > For example, Andor is unique in being a spin-off that is actually very good but I'd argue none of the things that make it so good require being set in the Star Wars universe Yes, exactly. Andor could easily have been a story of French Resistance against Nazi Germany during WW2 Star Wars is definitely at its best when it is not just being Star Wars Same with Marvel, but that's another discussion
      - ndsipa_pomu 4mo ago
        > Andor is unique in being a spin-off that is actually very good but I'd argue none of the things that make it so good require being set in the Star Wars universe. I think it shows the potential of using the Star Wars setting to tell a wide variety of stories. However, although I loved the original trilogy, I wouldn't class myself as a huge Star Wars fan - probably more of a Trekkie.
  - triceratops 4mo ago
    But Star Wars was never about serious, adult themes, and great writing. It was about amazing space battles, laser swords, witty one-liners, adventure, and slapstick comedy, in a fun, kid-friendly package. Andor is a fine production. It isn't really Star Wars though. My opinion: the closest movie, in spirit, to A New Hope is The Mummy (the 1999 one with Brendan Fraser).
    - ndsipa_pomu 4mo ago
      Star Wars did also include a fair amount of politics as you can't have rebels without something to rebel against. I find your Mummy/New Hope idea intriguing and maybe raise you Raiders of the Lost Ark.
      - triceratops 4mo ago
        > Star Wars did also a fair amount of politics You might be thinking of The Phantom Menace with its trade negotiations. The movie that Red Letter Media panned because of its focus on this plot point. The feeble nod to politics in A New Hope mostly went over my head as a kid. It was already obvious the Empire was evil. They had a guy who choked people at a whim and another who blew up planets. The scene telling us the Emperor had dissolved the Senate meant nothing to me. > maybe raise you Raiders of the Lost Ark Fair point.
- insane_dreamer 4mo ago
  The Mandalorian and Andor shows are the best of the SW universe. As for movies, Rogue One also stands above the others. I'd love to see a serious live-action show based on the idea of the Bad Batch (not copying the same story as the animated series, of course).
com2kid 4mo ago
I was not aware there was a new Star Wars movie out until I just read your comments. So maybe that is part of their problem...

The new Star Wars movie grossed $81.6 million at its debut last weekend, for comparison.

by prvc 4mo ago

The new Star Wars movie grossed $81.6 million at its debut last weekend, for comparison.

The Mandalorian TV series wasn't bad but the Star Wars franchise has been in reset/turnaround for ~7 YEARS (since the last movie). It's incomprehensible that Disney bet their relaunch on a spin-off streaming series based on a tertiary character miraculously swimming back upstream from online to cinema. The two leads are a guy you never see and a small puppet (with the big reveal new character being a CGI alien). As great as they were, C3PO, Yoda and Chewbacca couldn't have carried Empire Strikes Back as the leads. What was Disney thinking?

overfeed 4mo ago
> What was Disney thinking? "We continue to make a shit-load of money off toys and merchandizing"
ndsipa_pomu 4mo ago
Andor is the now the gold standard for Star Wars productions - serious themes, adult oriented, great writing and top tier acting. The Mandalorian was definitely aimed at a younger audience.
- bluefirebrand 4mo ago
  I think Mando season 1 is what Star Wars should be. A space themed throwback to old pulp novels, cowboys and samurai and pirates, with a veneer of lasers and spaceships painted on top. Andor is great, don't get me wrong. But Star Wars is best when it's pulp adventure stuff.
  - ndsipa_pomu 4mo ago
    Well George Lucas did borrow a lot of stuff from samurai films (The Hidden Fortress being the main one), so that is a return to its roots. Personally, I think that Firefly did the cowboys in space a lot better, but maybe that's due to better writing. I did enjoy the Mandalorian, but it's a bit too shallow.
    - mrandish 4mo ago
      +1 for Firefly nailing the 'cowboys in space' vibe.
    - bluefirebrand 4mo ago
      The concept in Mando is pretty much a direct rip of Lone Wolf and Cub, so I think it's really doing "Samurai in Space" more than "Cowboys" Of course the cowboy and samurai pulp genres are pretty similar and borrowed a lot from each other. Lone Gunslinger with a code of honor versus a Lone Swordsman with a code of honor
      - ndsipa_pomu 4mo ago
        I hadn't realised the link between those two, but you're right - I don't know why that never occurred to me as I do enjoy a lot of Asian cinema.
  - mrandish 4mo ago
    > But Star Wars is best when it's pulp adventure stuff. This is the way. I saw the first Star Wars the week it opened as a tween and it rocked my world. Both SW and Raiders of the Lost Ark had a clear vision of building on the proven structure of the old B&W movie serials like Flash Gordon but updating them with modern storytelling tools and larger budgets. It was a truly great concept and then Empire raised the stakes higher and even better. You're right that Mando Season 1 was an attempt to get back to the original concept and it got close. Skeleton Crew is perhaps the only other SW series where the core idea was to update a proven structure of the past in a pure and focused way - except it chose a different genre than 1930s serials. Initially I didn't know what to make of Skeleton Crew but once I got that it was building on the 1980s tween adventures like Goonies, I appreciated how it absolutely nailed what it was going for. My own kids are now older than Skeleton Crew's target audience, so it obviously wasn't for me but I applaud it as Disney's only other pure attempt at applying the 'big idea' that made OG SW great to another genre. As a sci-fan who loved the original IP to the point of reverence, even bad Star Wars is usually at least interesting but it can also be frustrating when it evokes echoes of the OG by being set in the same universe without even trying to be great in the same ways as the OG. For example, Andor is unique in being a spin-off that is actually very good but I'd argue none of the things that make it so good require being set in the Star Wars universe. It might be even better if it had been unshackled from the rules of the Star Wars cinematic universe and was a new, original sci-fi IP.
    - bluefirebrand 4mo ago
      > For example, Andor is unique in being a spin-off that is actually very good but I'd argue none of the things that make it so good require being set in the Star Wars universe Yes, exactly. Andor could easily have been a story of French Resistance against Nazi Germany during WW2 Star Wars is definitely at its best when it is not just being Star Wars Same with Marvel, but that's another discussion
    - ndsipa_pomu 4mo ago
      > Andor is unique in being a spin-off that is actually very good but I'd argue none of the things that make it so good require being set in the Star Wars universe. I think it shows the potential of using the Star Wars setting to tell a wide variety of stories. However, although I loved the original trilogy, I wouldn't class myself as a huge Star Wars fan - probably more of a Trekkie.
- triceratops 4mo ago
  But Star Wars was never about serious, adult themes, and great writing. It was about amazing space battles, laser swords, witty one-liners, adventure, and slapstick comedy, in a fun, kid-friendly package. Andor is a fine production. It isn't really Star Wars though. My opinion: the closest movie, in spirit, to A New Hope is The Mummy (the 1999 one with Brendan Fraser).
  - ndsipa_pomu 4mo ago
    Star Wars did also include a fair amount of politics as you can't have rebels without something to rebel against. I find your Mummy/New Hope idea intriguing and maybe raise you Raiders of the Lost Ark.
    - triceratops 4mo ago
      > Star Wars did also a fair amount of politics You might be thinking of The Phantom Menace with its trade negotiations. The movie that Red Letter Media panned because of its focus on this plot point. The feeble nod to politics in A New Hope mostly went over my head as a kid. It was already obvious the Empire was evil. They had a guy who choked people at a whim and another who blew up planets. The scene telling us the Emperor had dissolved the Senate meant nothing to me. > maybe raise you Raiders of the Lost Ark Fair point.
insane_dreamer 4mo ago
The Mandalorian and Andor shows are the best of the SW universe. As for movies, Rogue One also stands above the others. I'd love to see a serious live-action show based on the idea of the Bad Batch (not copying the same story as the animated series, of course).

com2kid 4mo ago

I was not aware there was a new Star Wars movie out until I just read your comments. So maybe that is part of their problem...