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If he holds socioeconomic status constant, how can he arrive at student income being a strong predictor? Doesn't equal socioeconomic status kind imply equal "st

by Tichy 14y ago

If he holds socioeconomic status constant, how can he arrive at student income being a strong predictor? Doesn't equal socioeconomic status kind imply equal "student income"? Also I wonder how quality of education is being measured?

barry-cotter 14y ago
The social status of people on exactly the same income can differ markedly. My first idea on how I'd disentangle SES effects from income would be parental highest degree. I imagine the average MBA is smarter than the average BA but dumber than the average PhD. And JDs and MDs will make more than any of them. If you restrict your sample to those with over 100K in annual income there will still be some people who are self employed trades people even. And the way I'd bet would be that the children of (Educational attainment group X) have more in common with their counterparts with poorer parents than with the group (has rich parents). Read Bryan's book, read Judith Rich Harris' “The Nurture Assumption”, read Amy Chua's book. Read the literature on heritability and mutability of personality traits and intelligence. It's all left me thinking that if I'm going to go for more aggro I'll just go for another child or earning more money. And Amy Chua really, really did not beat the soul out of either of her daughters. The space of non abusive First World middle class parenting styles encompasses her easily.
- Tichy 14y ago
  I only read the newspaper articles about Amy Chua, and if they were true, then in my opinion she tortured her daughters. I remember that they had to repeat piano pieces zillions of times and were not allowed to go to the toilet until they got them right, for example. That's torture. Sure, it could always be worse, but it's probably soul crushing enough. That her kids might not hold it against her doesn't mean a thing because kids always love their parents. In my country there was a case recently of a father abusing his daughter sexually for years and offering her to other men, yet in court she still felt sorry for testifying against him and called out "I still love you, daddy". I'm sure lots of middle class parents abuse their kids, too, but that doesn't imply the Chua style is non-abusive. Especially since the torturing was done apparently in the pursuit of meaningless status symbols (daughter played in famous concert hall once, great grades at school). The thing is, kids always grow up, no matter what you do to them. So you can always say "see, it worked out alright". Until the day when it all falls apart and the emotional backlash happens (in the form of something like the Nazi regime, for example - yeah, quote Godwin's law, I don't care...).
yummyfajitas 14y ago
Caplan focuses on middle class households, and provides little data on educational outcomes vs income. Data I've seen elsewhere (pisa, neap) suggests race + income are the biggest predictors of student achievement.

by Tichy 14y ago

barry-cotter 14y ago

The social status of people on exactly the same income can differ markedly. My first idea on how I'd disentangle SES effects from income would be parental highest degree. I imagine the average MBA is smarter than the average BA but dumber than the average PhD. And JDs and MDs will make more than any of them. If you restrict your sample to those with over 100K in annual income there will still be some people who are self employed trades people even. And the way I'd bet would be that the children of (Educational attainment group X) have more in common with their counterparts with poorer parents than with the group (has rich parents). Read Bryan's book, read Judith Rich Harris' “The Nurture Assumption”, read Amy Chua's book. Read the literature on heritability and mutability of personality traits and intelligence. It's all left me thinking that if I'm going to go for more aggro I'll just go for another child or earning more money. And Amy Chua really, really did not beat the soul out of either of her daughters. The space of non abusive First World middle class parenting styles encompasses her easily.

Tichy 14y ago
I only read the newspaper articles about Amy Chua, and if they were true, then in my opinion she tortured her daughters. I remember that they had to repeat piano pieces zillions of times and were not allowed to go to the toilet until they got them right, for example. That's torture. Sure, it could always be worse, but it's probably soul crushing enough. That her kids might not hold it against her doesn't mean a thing because kids always love their parents. In my country there was a case recently of a father abusing his daughter sexually for years and offering her to other men, yet in court she still felt sorry for testifying against him and called out "I still love you, daddy". I'm sure lots of middle class parents abuse their kids, too, but that doesn't imply the Chua style is non-abusive. Especially since the torturing was done apparently in the pursuit of meaningless status symbols (daughter played in famous concert hall once, great grades at school). The thing is, kids always grow up, no matter what you do to them. So you can always say "see, it worked out alright". Until the day when it all falls apart and the emotional backlash happens (in the form of something like the Nazi regime, for example - yeah, quote Godwin's law, I don't care...).

yummyfajitas 14y ago

Caplan focuses on middle class households, and provides little data on educational outcomes vs income. Data I've seen elsewhere (pisa, neap) suggests race + income are the biggest predictors of student achievement.