4 ms·

What I'm interested in is seeing how this will improve the AVIF image format. AVIF stomps the competition for low-bitrate still images (where chroma subsamplin

by Dwedit 5mo ago

What I'm interested in is seeing how this will improve the AVIF image format. AVIF stomps the competition for low-bitrate still images (where chroma subsampling is used). For lossless images, not so much. Lossless JPEG XL and lossless WEBP make lossless AVIF look like a joke.

wmf 5mo ago
Honestly AVIF2 is the last thing we need now. There are way too many minority image formats already.
- Gigachad 5mo ago
  There aren’t _that_ many. HEIF has been an unusually large pain in the ass just because it’s both patent encumbered and incredibly popular since the iPhone and many cameras use it. JPEG is woefully outdated with the lack of HDR and modern compression, HEIF can’t be used without paying a license, webp was designed just for extremely efficient small images rather than local storage, avif I’ve never seen used ever, and JPEG XL is on track to be the next major format. I agree we don’t need an avif2, but until jpeg xl there really weren’t any decent alternatives for jpeg.
  - hulitu 5mo ago
    > There aren’t _that_ many. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_graphics_file_formats#Technical_details https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_graphics_file_fo...
    - Gigachad 5mo ago
      Almost all of these are historic relics of no relevance today. FLIF for example was a research project that was later the basis of JPEG-XL. Pretty much only the ones I listed previously are serious contenders in the space right now.
- fishgoesblub 5mo ago
  It's a silly idea to not improve on things for something as "too many" formats. There's too many ARM processors out there, should companies stop development and keep using old, less efficient CPUs?
  - wmf 5mo ago
    The market can handle one new format around every ten years. JPEG XL just came out so everybody should bide their time for a while instead of trying to immediately churn to a slightly better format.
ChadNauseam 5mo ago
AVIF is for sure my favorite image format right now. No other format has the quadfecta of lossless, HDR, transparency, browser support. Plus as you said, for very compressed images it looks amazing. It blows my mind how small AVIF files can be. Also, unlike HEIC and Ultra HDR JPEG, it actually supports HDR natively as part of the file format rather than doing the hacky sidecar gain map trick. I know it doesn't matter to everyone, but I just love HDR and AVIF is the only format that I feel like really takes it seriously.
- ksec 5mo ago
  >but I just love HDR and AVIF is the only format that I feel like really takes it seriously. JPEG XL would like a word.
  - gen2brain 5mo ago
    He would like a word, but browsers said no?
    - Gigachad 5mo ago
      Firefox is getting the flag to turn it on in the next release, chromium just added it back now there is a rust decoder. The wheels are turning again. Browser support for jpeg xl is very much in progress again.
      - throw0101a 5mo ago
        And it is already present in Safari (and more generally in iOS and macOS, as part of the standard OS graphics library): * https://developer.apple.com/documentation/avfoundation/avvideocodectype/jpegxl https://developer.apple.com/documentation/avfoundation/avvid... * https://petapixel.com/2024/09/18/why-apple-uses-jpeg-xl-in-the-iphone-16-and-what-it-means-for-your-photos/ https://petapixel.com/2024/09/18/why-apple-uses-jpeg-xl-in-t...
- erwan577 5mo ago
  Do you think advanced users should consider AVIF/AVIF2 along JPEGXL for long term pictures archival ? Which kind of encode settings do you suggest for conversion from high resolution RAWs or JPEGs ?
theandrewbailey 5mo ago
Maybe libavif will pick up AV2 support, so all one needs to do is update it to v2.0.0 or something and bam! Extra efficiency!
xmichael909 5mo ago
Not always https://tonisagrista.com/blog/2023/jpegxl-vs-avif/ https://tonisagrista.com/blog/2023/jpegxl-vs-avif/

by Dwedit 5mo ago

wmf 5mo ago

Honestly AVIF2 is the last thing we need now. There are way too many minority image formats already.

Gigachad 5mo ago
There aren’t _that_ many. HEIF has been an unusually large pain in the ass just because it’s both patent encumbered and incredibly popular since the iPhone and many cameras use it. JPEG is woefully outdated with the lack of HDR and modern compression, HEIF can’t be used without paying a license, webp was designed just for extremely efficient small images rather than local storage, avif I’ve never seen used ever, and JPEG XL is on track to be the next major format. I agree we don’t need an avif2, but until jpeg xl there really weren’t any decent alternatives for jpeg.
- hulitu 5mo ago
  > There aren’t _that_ many. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_graphics_file_formats#Technical_details https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_graphics_file_fo...
  - Gigachad 5mo ago
    Almost all of these are historic relics of no relevance today. FLIF for example was a research project that was later the basis of JPEG-XL. Pretty much only the ones I listed previously are serious contenders in the space right now.
fishgoesblub 5mo ago
It's a silly idea to not improve on things for something as "too many" formats. There's too many ARM processors out there, should companies stop development and keep using old, less efficient CPUs?
- wmf 5mo ago
  The market can handle one new format around every ten years. JPEG XL just came out so everybody should bide their time for a while instead of trying to immediately churn to a slightly better format.

ChadNauseam 5mo ago

AVIF is for sure my favorite image format right now. No other format has the quadfecta of lossless, HDR, transparency, browser support. Plus as you said, for very compressed images it looks amazing. It blows my mind how small AVIF files can be. Also, unlike HEIC and Ultra HDR JPEG, it actually supports HDR natively as part of the file format rather than doing the hacky sidecar gain map trick. I know it doesn't matter to everyone, but I just love HDR and AVIF is the only format that I feel like really takes it seriously.

ksec 5mo ago
>but I just love HDR and AVIF is the only format that I feel like really takes it seriously. JPEG XL would like a word.
- gen2brain 5mo ago
  He would like a word, but browsers said no?
  - Gigachad 5mo ago
    Firefox is getting the flag to turn it on in the next release, chromium just added it back now there is a rust decoder. The wheels are turning again. Browser support for jpeg xl is very much in progress again.
    - throw0101a 5mo ago
      And it is already present in Safari (and more generally in iOS and macOS, as part of the standard OS graphics library): * https://developer.apple.com/documentation/avfoundation/avvideocodectype/jpegxl https://developer.apple.com/documentation/avfoundation/avvid... * https://petapixel.com/2024/09/18/why-apple-uses-jpeg-xl-in-the-iphone-16-and-what-it-means-for-your-photos/ https://petapixel.com/2024/09/18/why-apple-uses-jpeg-xl-in-t...
erwan577 5mo ago
Do you think advanced users should consider AVIF/AVIF2 along JPEGXL for long term pictures archival ? Which kind of encode settings do you suggest for conversion from high resolution RAWs or JPEGs ?

theandrewbailey 5mo ago

Maybe libavif will pick up AV2 support, so all one needs to do is update it to v2.0.0 or something and bam! Extra efficiency!

xmichael909 5mo ago

Not always https://tonisagrista.com/blog/2023/jpegxl-vs-avif/ https://tonisagrista.com/blog/2023/jpegxl-vs-avif/