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I wonder how much this work being pushed forward right now is a response to the Bun drama.

kristoff_it 4mo ago
None of it, we've been working on this stuff for a long time already, scroll the devlog backwards, you will find plenty of entries on that topic. It's the opposite: people have become more receptive to communication about this work now that there's "drama" attached to it. This post I co-authored with Andrew is from 2020. In it we announce the idea of getting rid of LLVM from the debug build pipeline and since then work has been steadily going forward, it's just not trivial to bootstrap a full compiler pipeline for all major targets, but we're finally getting there. https://kristoff.it/blog/zig-new-relationship-llvm/ https://kristoff.it/blog/zig-new-relationship-llvm/
- bcardarella 4mo ago
  I'm very glad to see the work, thank you for all of the efforts.
mi_lk 4mo ago
Some people really can’t operate without stirring unnecessary drama. What if that’s true and what if that’s not true?
dzbarsky 4mo ago
None? All of these things were in flight for a while and given Zigs anti-AI stance i think they wrote off Bun ever since the acquisition
- dnautics 4mo ago
  what anti-ai stance? i have multiple projects in zig that are pretty much written by AI, no problem.
  - mihaelm 4mo ago
    They're probably refering to their strict "No LLM / No AI" policy: https://codeberg.org/ziglang/zig/src/branch/master/README.md#strict-no-llm-no-ai-policy https://codeberg.org/ziglang/zig/src/branch/master/README.md... which applies to contributing to the Zig project. The "contributor poker" blog post should probably be a required reading to understand where it comes from: https://kristoff.it/blog/contributor-poker-and-ai/ https://kristoff.it/blog/contributor-poker-and-ai/ "Anti-AI stance" is painting it with too broad of a brush. You're definitely not breaching any CoC or whatever by using AI for your Zig projects.
    - epolanski 4mo ago
      And the largest Zig projects all make use of AI assistance to build software.
      - dnautics 4mo ago
        tigerbeetle does not, but the others do.
        epolanski 4mo ago
        Yes, of course, I'm sure no developer there ever uses ai assistance...
    - dnautics 4mo ago
      > too broad of a brush yes, that was my point. as domeone who uses ai extensively to write zig (and someone who has made very small non-AI cobtributions to zig in the past), rejecting ai is currently a strategically good decision for core zig.
cafebabbe 4mo ago
There is absolutely no "Bun drama", there are just two projects with different goals and methodologies, mutually incompatible. All this thing is just a small bunch of bored, terminally-twitting people ... In any case, I'm super glad for this milestone (and impressed!).

None of it, we've been working on this stuff for a long time already, scroll the devlog backwards, you will find plenty of entries on that topic. It's the opposite: people have become more receptive to communication about this work now that there's "drama" attached to it. This post I co-authored with Andrew is from 2020. In it we announce the idea of getting rid of LLVM from the debug build pipeline and since then work has been steadily going forward, it's just not trivial to bootstrap a full compiler pipeline for all major targets, but we're finally getting there. https://kristoff.it/blog/zig-new-relationship-llvm/ https://kristoff.it/blog/zig-new-relationship-llvm/

bcardarella 4mo ago
I'm very glad to see the work, thank you for all of the efforts.

mi_lk 4mo ago

Some people really can’t operate without stirring unnecessary drama. What if that’s true and what if that’s not true?

dzbarsky 4mo ago

None? All of these things were in flight for a while and given Zigs anti-AI stance i think they wrote off Bun ever since the acquisition

dnautics 4mo ago
what anti-ai stance? i have multiple projects in zig that are pretty much written by AI, no problem.
- mihaelm 4mo ago
  They're probably refering to their strict "No LLM / No AI" policy: https://codeberg.org/ziglang/zig/src/branch/master/README.md#strict-no-llm-no-ai-policy https://codeberg.org/ziglang/zig/src/branch/master/README.md... which applies to contributing to the Zig project. The "contributor poker" blog post should probably be a required reading to understand where it comes from: https://kristoff.it/blog/contributor-poker-and-ai/ https://kristoff.it/blog/contributor-poker-and-ai/ "Anti-AI stance" is painting it with too broad of a brush. You're definitely not breaching any CoC or whatever by using AI for your Zig projects.
  - epolanski 4mo ago
    And the largest Zig projects all make use of AI assistance to build software.
    - dnautics 4mo ago
      tigerbeetle does not, but the others do.
      - epolanski 4mo ago
        Yes, of course, I'm sure no developer there ever uses ai assistance...
  - dnautics 4mo ago
    > too broad of a brush yes, that was my point. as domeone who uses ai extensively to write zig (and someone who has made very small non-AI cobtributions to zig in the past), rejecting ai is currently a strategically good decision for core zig.

cafebabbe 4mo ago

There is absolutely no "Bun drama", there are just two projects with different goals and methodologies, mutually incompatible. All this thing is just a small bunch of bored, terminally-twitting people ... In any case, I'm super glad for this milestone (and impressed!).