4 ms·

This is like a vegan refusing to be around, let alone eat with, meateaters. As vegans and vegetarians (and decades earlier, non-smokers) have shown, you can ha

This is like a vegan refusing to be around, let alone eat with, meateaters. As vegans and vegetarians (and decades earlier, non-smokers) have shown, you can have a principled stance on something without forcing that stance on others. Yes, it sucks. Yes, your impact will be smaller. But it’s a lot easier to maintain than to break off contact with a friend who dares ask ChatGPT a question.

dist-epoch 5mo ago
It's not that simple, some principles are more principled than others. Would you be friend with Goebbels, knowing he has some different stances than you on some subjects?
- em-bee 5mo ago
  yes, if if there is a chance to show him how he is wrong. see daryl davis.
insanetake 5mo ago
Also, anyone who is anti-AI because of environmental reasons but still eats meat is a huge hypocrite.
- cm2012 5mo ago
  Same should be said of anyone who ever does international travel
bawolff 5mo ago
> As vegans and vegetarians (and decades earlier, non-smokers) have shown, you can have a principled stance on something without forcing that stance on others. If you truly believe something is evil, i think that is difficult. Like imagine if someone said, i believe murder is wrong but i dont want to force that on others. Or, i dont really like slavery but that's just me and others should be slave owners if they feel that is right. Obviously there is a spectrum of moral ills, and not all are created equal, but if you truly believe something is abhorent, you can't be a good person and tolerate it in others
- juleiie 5mo ago
  There is no such thing as good person or evil person anywhere else other than in human society. It’s just a brain fart to make you cooperate and evolutionary survive. You don’t need to listen to this primitive instinct. You can just choose consciously what you think is the best. Do not share or propagate or promote this view however. Our society only works thanks to most people being slaves to these tremors. Sometimes I get an impression that it isn’t even a freedom of choice, some must perceive themselves as "good people" as a highest imperative. Whatever that means for current century. I like to view myself as grey person.
  - layla5alive 5mo ago
    "Our society only works thanks to most people being slaves to these tremors." If everyone defects, the system breaks down. Morality is good and it is actually logical - it solves the prisoners dilemma and pushes cooperation instead of defection. It also reduces harm and has lots of other good properties. I feel that how we affect others matters, but even if you're just a sociopath doing the math, defecting is a strategy that burns things down at scale, not a smart one. Tit for tat with forgiveness is not only morally aligned, but also more prosperous in scenarios that aren't just one-off interactions with strangers.
    - juleiie 5mo ago
      Morality is very good, please always obey its principles. You must be aware though that some people will stab you in the back if the reward is bigger than widely understood consequences. I mean no wonder society is wired to hate that, this is a true critical code execution vulnerability that will never be patched. This is also the reason why we have decentralised governance systems such as democracy. It isn’t about preventing psychopaths, it’s about pitting them against each other. It’s not about having zero bombs. It’s about having enough bombs to destroy everything if someone drops a single one. That’s the pattern and framework of how to tame warring monkeys into skyscraper builders. When an earthquake forms a mountain it doesn’t do this consciously from what we know. The same is true for skyscrapers. Of course on an individual level there is an illusion of signing papers, a development plan. But what really happened was two ambitions colliding in massive clash and the resulting force just so happens to point up in the sky.

dist-epoch 5mo ago

It's not that simple, some principles are more principled than others. Would you be friend with Goebbels, knowing he has some different stances than you on some subjects?

em-bee 5mo ago
yes, if if there is a chance to show him how he is wrong. see daryl davis.

insanetake 5mo ago

Also, anyone who is anti-AI because of environmental reasons but still eats meat is a huge hypocrite.

cm2012 5mo ago
Same should be said of anyone who ever does international travel

bawolff 5mo ago

> As vegans and vegetarians (and decades earlier, non-smokers) have shown, you can have a principled stance on something without forcing that stance on others. If you truly believe something is evil, i think that is difficult. Like imagine if someone said, i believe murder is wrong but i dont want to force that on others. Or, i dont really like slavery but that's just me and others should be slave owners if they feel that is right. Obviously there is a spectrum of moral ills, and not all are created equal, but if you truly believe something is abhorent, you can't be a good person and tolerate it in others

juleiie 5mo ago
There is no such thing as good person or evil person anywhere else other than in human society. It’s just a brain fart to make you cooperate and evolutionary survive. You don’t need to listen to this primitive instinct. You can just choose consciously what you think is the best. Do not share or propagate or promote this view however. Our society only works thanks to most people being slaves to these tremors. Sometimes I get an impression that it isn’t even a freedom of choice, some must perceive themselves as "good people" as a highest imperative. Whatever that means for current century. I like to view myself as grey person.
- layla5alive 5mo ago
  "Our society only works thanks to most people being slaves to these tremors." If everyone defects, the system breaks down. Morality is good and it is actually logical - it solves the prisoners dilemma and pushes cooperation instead of defection. It also reduces harm and has lots of other good properties. I feel that how we affect others matters, but even if you're just a sociopath doing the math, defecting is a strategy that burns things down at scale, not a smart one. Tit for tat with forgiveness is not only morally aligned, but also more prosperous in scenarios that aren't just one-off interactions with strangers.
  - juleiie 5mo ago
    Morality is very good, please always obey its principles. You must be aware though that some people will stab you in the back if the reward is bigger than widely understood consequences. I mean no wonder society is wired to hate that, this is a true critical code execution vulnerability that will never be patched. This is also the reason why we have decentralised governance systems such as democracy. It isn’t about preventing psychopaths, it’s about pitting them against each other. It’s not about having zero bombs. It’s about having enough bombs to destroy everything if someone drops a single one. That’s the pattern and framework of how to tame warring monkeys into skyscraper builders. When an earthquake forms a mountain it doesn’t do this consciously from what we know. The same is true for skyscrapers. Of course on an individual level there is an illusion of signing papers, a development plan. But what really happened was two ambitions colliding in massive clash and the resulting force just so happens to point up in the sky.