5 ms·
Memory decline after menopause linked to loss of estrogen production in brain
- thridmddi9e93 5mo ago> Nearly two-thirds of Americans with Alzheimer’s disease (AD) are women, but the reasons why women are more vulnerable are still not fully understood. Women live much longer and more comfortable lives. Men are more likely to die before alzheimer can even manifest.
- jona-f 5mo agoWell, I went out to disprove your thesis, thinking we can easily look at countries where men live longer than women in another country. For example, women in the US have a lower life expectancy than men in Australia (go figure). Now women are less than 1.4 times more likely than men to get dementia in australia, but about 2 times more likely to get alzheimer in the US. So that kind of points in your direction, but that is of course wildly inaccurate, cause one is mentioning dementia the other only alzheimer and whatnot. https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/ https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/ https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/dementia/dementia-in-aus/contents/how-many-people-have-dementia/prevalence-of-dementia https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/dementia/dementia-in-aus/con... https://www.alz.org/getmedia/ef8f48f9-ad36-48ea-87f9-b74034635c1e/alzheimers-facts-and-figures.pdf https://www.alz.org/getmedia/ef8f48f9-ad36-48ea-87f9-b740346... Edit: qwen and glm seem to also agree with parent. "Age is the dominant risk factor".
- throw8394jrjr 5mo ago[flagged]
- phoronixrly 5mo agoEh, are you citing sone peer-reviewed research or are you making stuff up?
- throw8394jrjr 5mo agoIt is just a bro science, sorry. Correlation and simple statistics is not real scientific method, and does not fit into modern research!
- brokensegue 5mo agoThen maybe caveat your posts with that
- rirkrkrkfkfkfkf 5mo ago[flagged]
- mirabilis 5mo agoUS life expectancy in 2024 for women was 81.4 years; for men, 76.5 [1]; “non-early” symptoms of Alzheimer's typically begin after 65 [2]. I don’t think that the life expectancy average offset of ~5 years is the main factor here. 1. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db548.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db548.htm 2. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/alzheimers-disease/in-depth/alzheimers/art-20048356 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/alzheimers-di...
- throw8394jrjr 5mo agoIt also said "comfortable lives". Also compare retirement ages, years worked, income (hard mental work)... it is well known that alzhaimer is corellated with brain activity (like solving suduku puzzles). Watching tv all day is not very healthy for brain...
- mirabilis 5mo agoYes, I didn’t address that portion of your original post, as I was silently agreeing with you that men perform vital social and economic activity such as pick-up truck, football, and bitcoin, whereas women do nothing all day save for frivolous non-labor activities such as raising children.
- bethekidyouwant 5mo agoNot sure you’re raising children when you’re 65.
- mirabilis 5mo agoProbably not, but I thought we were discussing all related preventative activities for the full span of the comfortable life.
- rirkrkrkfkfkfkf 5mo ago[dead]
- analog8374 5mo agoMemory is environment-associated. Which is to say, these memories that you have are connected to the environment that you find yourself in. Change your environment and your memory, to a degree proportional to the environment change, breaks. This is why sometimes you enter a room and forget why you came in. This can explain the phenomenon referred to in the op. A woman enters a room devoid of estrogen and her memory breaks.
- phoronixrly 5mo agoEh, have you seen any research on this or are you quoting own experience?
- stevenhuang 5mo agoAll of the claims above wrt memory reads quite mundane and adequately non assertive, but I'm a layperson. I do believe it's well established that memory is associative. It's why roses are associated with love, because of Valentine's Day. If you see roses or smell roses, you will recall memories of your loved ones maybe, especially if you have given them roses. Whether the decline in estrogen content of a room can be the dominant mechanism for momentary memory loss is a separate claim and more dubious sounding to me though (estrogen behaving like a pheromone??), but it's not like I have looked into this deeply so idk.
- analog8374 5mo agoMost people are profoundly conformist in their opinions and very defensive towards the smallest contradiction. It's a conversation-killer. It's the cement that binds society. It is what it is.
- phoronixrly 5mo agoI am in fact agreeing with your opinion, however I refuse to accept it without any evidence. And I don't think asking for sources or expressing a contradicting opinion is a conversation killer.
- derektank 5mo agoThe damage the Women’s Health Initiative did to women’s health by conducting the flawed research that got HRT black boxed for twenty years really cannot be overstated. We went from a quarter of women being on estrogen replacement therapy post-menopause at the turn of the millennium to ~5% in 2020. A real case study in institutional failure.
- bethekidyouwant 5mo agoThe institution of science?
- leoqa 5mo agoIf I remember correctly they linked it to breast cancer, causing all research and prescribing to basically disappear over night. It took 20 years before the study was revisited and the link dismissed.
- sandworm101 5mo agoAt the time, there was also real concern about what that estrogen was doing to other people too, people around women who were on supplements. I used to be a competitive swimmer. There was a real debate in the 90s/2000s about how much of that estrogen was ending up in pool water. The question was whether it was healthy for children, boys and girls, to be literately swimming in a not-insignificant amount of supplemental estrogen. Testosterone patches were also an issue in pools, but they were much less common. With the change in treatment the debate is now largely moot. The exposure for lap swimmers was significant. A competitive kid would regularly spend 10+ hours a week in that water (at my peak it was closer to 20+) not to mention the amount of water swallowed and inhaled as vapor/droplets. There is a line in a Doctor Who episode (Torchwood?) where a character comments that he could recognize 20th century earth because he could taste estrogen in the rain. In real life, it was detected in rainwater.
- jhoechtl 5mo agoIs there any line between your statement, women's contraceptive pill and an ongoing decline in human intelligence?
- Qem 5mo ago> Nearly two-thirds of Americans with Alzheimer’s disease (AD) are women, but the reasons why women are more vulnerable are still not fully understood. Scientists have long theorized that the loss of estrogen after menopause may reduce the brain’s natural protection against memory loss and neurodegeneration. The part that makes no sense for me is men ending with smaller rates of dementia, given they had much less estrogen to begin with. Men have less incidence of dementia. Men also have much lager incidence of baldness. Did somebody already study if baldness and dementia are inversely correlated? I don't know, perhaps sunlight exposure in the scalp have neuroprotective effects? Given the prevalence of baldness, and the downside of the condition for sexual attractiveness of its bearers, I suspect we will still discover some strong unexpected upside to explain why this trait was selected for regardless.
- zulux 5mo agoMen have significant estrogen: Men: roughly 10–40 pg/mL Women (not at ovulation): roughly 30–40 pg/mL At Ovulation, women spike. Hence, libido changes. If you know, you know.
- Qem 5mo agoThink you. I didn't know there was such overlap in the levels between both genders. Do men's levels also take a hit with age?
- CSSer 5mo agoThose numbers are bullshit. The bottom of a grown woman’s cycle is around 100 pg/ml. I have no idea where they’re getting those numbers but I assure you they’re wrong, and even if they were remotely correct about E levels being close to one another at some point in the cycle the majority of the time they’re much farther apart.
- Supernaut 5mo ago> baldness, and the downside of the condition for sexual attractiveness of its bearers Just a guess, and I highly doubt there are any reliable statistics on this, but perhaps balding men are less likely to be tempted to abandon their family unit, thereby making it more likely that their children will thrive and carry on their genes? I base this theory on my own experience, which is that I went completely bald in my early thirties and haven't had a second look from a woman ever since. Even if I were the sort to want to cheat on my wife, there wouldn't be any takers![0] [0] I'm not claiming that bald men are necessarily sexually unattractive. I just know that it didn't work for me, looks-wise.
- rendaw 5mo agoI'm a bit confused about exactly what's novel here. Here's an article from at least a year earlier talking about memory decline after menopause being linked to lower estrogen: https://health.clevelandclinic.org/memory-loss-in-middle-aged-women-is-it-age-or-menopause https://health.clevelandclinic.org/memory-loss-in-middle-age... The article keeps bouncing between talking about estrogen loss generally, and the extracellular matrix (ECM), and doesn't connect the two until about halfway through the article where it says estrogen loss was studied in the ECM... but then it goes back to talking about stuff unrelated to the ECM. I thought "production" might be the key word here, but that's barely mentioned in the article either. Looking at the actual study: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/acel.70551 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/acel.70551 the variables were: sex, age, stopping estrogen production in just the brain or the whole body. AFAIU: 1. Memory and social issues: old, female, either stoppage 2. Depression: either age, female, either stoppage 3. ECM changes: either age, either sex, reduced brain estrogen (whole body not tested?) The article says: > In mice, ... in females [estrogen] is produced predominantly in the brain. But the paper says: > In rodents, aromatase is expressed almost exclusively in the brain and gonads (Bulun et al. 2005; Zhao et al. 2009). Old female mice are thus heavily reliant on estrogen synthesis in the brain after the cessation of estrous cycles (equivalent to menopause in women). IIUC in humans it's not produced in the brain, so the idea was to replicate that in mice artificially and see what affect it has on brain function. And... it led to decline in memory function in mice. So I guess we're back to my first question, which is how was this commonly known if this is a new study drawing that link. TLDR though I think the conclusion isn't that we've established a link, but that we've confirmed there's some other female-male difference that allows estrogen to have this effect. Edit: no, I'm still confused. The paper concludes: > Furthermore, brain-specific estrogen deficiency, achieved through targeted deletion of aromatase, led to alterations in hippocampal ECM that correlated with behavioral changes and memory impairment This is wrong, right? Alterations to ECM happened in males and females, but the behavioral changes and memory impairment were in women only...
- gavinray 5mo agoEstrogen (specifically Estradiol, E2) is one of the most important systemic hormones in both men and women I've spent a significant amount of my free time for the last 15 years studying androgen physiology and self-experimentation. Here are a few facts about estradiol that others might find surprising: 1. E2 acts as a master metabolic/energy regulator in humans. ER-alpha and pan-ER agonists are being developed for obesity and metabolic disorders. Example: SLU-PP-332 2. Libido in males is regulated by E2. Androgens like testosterone/DHT seem to be required to support the biology of erectile function, but for mental libido estrogen is the primary component. 3. Estradiol is synergistically anabolic with androgens. This is why cattle hormone implants contain a blend of Trenbolone and E2 Estrogen has so many supporting functions in brain, muscle, adipose tissue, and bone health... Apologies for no citations and rough formatting but currently on a phone. Happy to provide citations when home
- ranger207 5mo agoRe #2, in the mtf trans experience high estrogen and low testosterone are correlated with low libido, with some individuals even temporarily stopping antiandrogen medications in order to get some back
- zparky 5mo agolibido is fixed with progesterone (which is commonly taken ~1-2 years into hrt) for better breast growth. anecdotally it makes you completely f*king feral
- nostrademons 5mo ago
- Scroll_Swe 5mo agoSo they should drink more beer then? btw guys, stop drinking beer. Makes you so so fat and give you tits. The more you know.
- grvdrm 5mo agoAnd for me - total stomach mess too.
- Scroll_Swe 5mo agoFor sure, beer is a great cure for constipation in that it causes liquid stools.
- grvdrm 5mo agoThat and my god the odors! The interaction is so much worse in my 40s than it used to be.
- systemBuilder 5mo agoStrangely, estrogen bathes the male brain in the womb to remove connections and make it masculine. To think of it as "the female hormone" is to misunderstand physiology.