4 ms·

You say that, but just today I showcased my Megaman X Recomp on a Megaman subreddit. I got harassed by a drive-by anti-AI cabal and then the moderators of the s

You say that, but just today I showcased my Megaman X Recomp on a Megaman subreddit. I got harassed by a drive-by anti-AI cabal and then the moderators of the subreddit removed my submission after I reported the harassment, citing that AI was involved, and AI is theft.

userbinator 4mo ago
[flagged]
- Gamemaster1379 4mo ago
  Yeah, I may give a whirl to those subreddits, but it does really show the dissonance between a sect's visceral hatred of AI relative to their interests when they're rejecting the progress of a game on the game's own franchise's subreddit.
- Groxx 4mo ago
  Libraries purchase books. One for every book they loan out at a time, digitally or physically. The most recent noteworthy counter-example is archive.org breaching their "one purchase = one concurrent loan" limit during COVID, and they lost that court battle. If you're equating libraries to LLMs, then every leading-model company would have purchased ~every book, newspaper, movie, and song in existence at least once. They have not.
  - darkwater 4mo ago
    Because libraries predate copyright and publishers and all the industry behind it. If libraries were to be invented nowadays, they won't let them purchase a single physical book to be enjoyed by several different physical persons over the course of time. What the publishing industry would like to have is 1 physical person = 1 or more physical copies, not the other way round.
    - layla5alive 4mo ago
      This can't be overstated! Libraries would never be allowed to come into existence today. I think we should all think long and hard about the society we have collectively created. It is not too late to make an effort to fight to reclaim the rights and norms we've ceded...
    - Groxx 4mo ago
      So how do you explain LLM companies paying roughly none of it? If you're saying the protection is stronger now... how have they not been sued out of existence? Honestly at this point a library might be an easy sell, in some ways. Copyright holders would be getting something rather than nothing (or the nearly-nothing they get from streaming), they might leap at that.
  - 47282847 4mo ago
    Many national libraries receive copies of “every” book published in the covered country. They don’t have to buy them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_library https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_library
    - Groxx 4mo ago
      If you're going by the broad definition and lack of "is this like 1 or 1,000,000 buildings" numbers, note that it also says: >Unlike public libraries, these rarely allow citizens to borrow books. Which would make them fairly irrelevant for this thread.
  - userbinator 4mo ago
    Libraries purchase books. But not those who visit them and read for free.
    - deleted 4mo ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 4mo ago
      [deleted]
    - Groxx 4mo ago
      And LLM companies purchase roughly nothing they train on (nor do their users), which is the point of the comparison here.
idiotsecant 4mo ago
That's a pretty valid viewpoint, honestly. Unless the AI is open weights and free of charge it's using human effort that nobody paid for to do a commercial thing. I would make the argument that open weights models are ethically still maybe questionable, but at least it's making the output a public good
- stalfie 4mo ago
  The counterpoint is that every company ever has based themselves on human effort they never paid for (usually). The entire scientific endeavour for example. Standing on the shoulders of giants and so on.
zuzululu 4mo ago
big reason why i stopped using reddit
- Gamemaster1379 4mo ago
  I've been off-and-on again. I stopped using it for years. I begrudgingly began using it again as I founded a private game server (before AI was viable, even, so it wasn't sued) for a game that shutdown a few years ago. Perhaps hilariously, the moderators there also didn't like me and told me to eat shit when I suggested people start doing packet captures. At least they warmed up to me over the years though and actually endorse the project now. Doesn't make the rest of the website any less of a cesspool though.
startpage_com 4mo ago
[dead]
jamesu 4mo ago
One bizarre related thing I've noticed is often you will find people who otherwise seem ok with people violating the copyright and other various licenses by "decompiling" a game, but as soon as AI is involved suddenly it's a big controversial ethical issue... as if totally violating the authors rights is a minor inconvenience.

userbinator 4mo ago

[flagged]

Gamemaster1379 4mo ago
Yeah, I may give a whirl to those subreddits, but it does really show the dissonance between a sect's visceral hatred of AI relative to their interests when they're rejecting the progress of a game on the game's own franchise's subreddit.
Groxx 4mo ago
Libraries purchase books. One for every book they loan out at a time, digitally or physically. The most recent noteworthy counter-example is archive.org breaching their "one purchase = one concurrent loan" limit during COVID, and they lost that court battle. If you're equating libraries to LLMs, then every leading-model company would have purchased ~every book, newspaper, movie, and song in existence at least once. They have not.
- darkwater 4mo ago
  Because libraries predate copyright and publishers and all the industry behind it. If libraries were to be invented nowadays, they won't let them purchase a single physical book to be enjoyed by several different physical persons over the course of time. What the publishing industry would like to have is 1 physical person = 1 or more physical copies, not the other way round.
  - layla5alive 4mo ago
    This can't be overstated! Libraries would never be allowed to come into existence today. I think we should all think long and hard about the society we have collectively created. It is not too late to make an effort to fight to reclaim the rights and norms we've ceded...
  - Groxx 4mo ago
    So how do you explain LLM companies paying roughly none of it? If you're saying the protection is stronger now... how have they not been sued out of existence? Honestly at this point a library might be an easy sell, in some ways. Copyright holders would be getting something rather than nothing (or the nearly-nothing they get from streaming), they might leap at that.
- 47282847 4mo ago
  Many national libraries receive copies of “every” book published in the covered country. They don’t have to buy them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_library https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_library
  - Groxx 4mo ago
    If you're going by the broad definition and lack of "is this like 1 or 1,000,000 buildings" numbers, note that it also says: >Unlike public libraries, these rarely allow citizens to borrow books. Which would make them fairly irrelevant for this thread.
- userbinator 4mo ago
  Libraries purchase books. But not those who visit them and read for free.
  - deleted 4mo ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 4mo ago
    [deleted]
  - Groxx 4mo ago
    And LLM companies purchase roughly nothing they train on (nor do their users), which is the point of the comparison here.

idiotsecant 4mo ago

That's a pretty valid viewpoint, honestly. Unless the AI is open weights and free of charge it's using human effort that nobody paid for to do a commercial thing. I would make the argument that open weights models are ethically still maybe questionable, but at least it's making the output a public good

stalfie 4mo ago
The counterpoint is that every company ever has based themselves on human effort they never paid for (usually). The entire scientific endeavour for example. Standing on the shoulders of giants and so on.

zuzululu 4mo ago

big reason why i stopped using reddit

Gamemaster1379 4mo ago
I've been off-and-on again. I stopped using it for years. I begrudgingly began using it again as I founded a private game server (before AI was viable, even, so it wasn't sued) for a game that shutdown a few years ago. Perhaps hilariously, the moderators there also didn't like me and told me to eat shit when I suggested people start doing packet captures. At least they warmed up to me over the years though and actually endorse the project now. Doesn't make the rest of the website any less of a cesspool though.

startpage_com 4mo ago

[dead]

jamesu 4mo ago

One bizarre related thing I've noticed is often you will find people who otherwise seem ok with people violating the copyright and other various licenses by "decompiling" a game, but as soon as AI is involved suddenly it's a big controversial ethical issue... as if totally violating the authors rights is a minor inconvenience.