6 ms·

I'm constantly surprised by just how bad macOS is as a Linux user. I currently have to deal with it sometimes as I run my local LLM server on it and it's painfu

I'm constantly surprised by just how bad macOS is as a Linux user. I currently have to deal with it sometimes as I run my local LLM server on it and it's painful. That said the hardware is great, I run Asahi on another M1 MBP and Linux makes it the best laptop I've ever used.

commandersaki 5mo ago
Funny it’s the opposite for me. What if I want to switch between desktops of multiple users; easy with fast user switching, not really a thing in Linux (yeah I’m sure it can be hacked up, but bleh).
- treve 5mo ago
  Linux had this well before OS X
  - wpm 5mo ago
    Does it still or was it another of the things cut in Wayland?
    - treve 5mo ago
      Still does. On gnome you can switch via the lock screen.
      - rbanffy 4mo ago
        I miss the 3D cube and the wobbly windows.
        tiberious726 4mo ago
        Install the plasma add-ons package if you're on KDE, I'm sure there's still something around for gnome too. Burning windows away on close is my favorite
    - regexorcist 5mo ago
      Do you and OP even know what you are referring to? https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Display_manager https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Display_manager
- thefossguy69 5mo ago
  The biggest papercut preventing me from being productive on macOS is it's horrible window management which cannot be traversed with keyboard shortcuts like one does in WMs like bspwm and others on Linux and that absolutely insane ~500 ms delay in setting the focused window when moving between virtual desktops. For some reason, Apple's ideal desktop experience is tailored around focusing on one application at a time. Which is certainly true for some workflows, but that's not me.
  - altcognito 5mo ago
    It is bizarro. With multi monitor sometimes I click windows and things don’t show. Dragging when more than one dialog is open is unpredictable. The corners are huge, even when maximized. Even the vaunted application bar is so weird - and windows is trying to copy it! Why can’t we use the entire bottom of the screen? Apps don’t show there anyway! You can’t get rid of it and replace it with something else? Just not allowed. Stretch an app across two monitors? Not with that config! Display port? Oh no! Scaling cleanly? Never heard of it. Seriously bad stuff. I’ve thought about writing a book with everything wrong with it. It’s bonkers.
    - tonyedgecombe 5mo ago
      >You can’t get rid of it and replace it with something else? You can hide it. I rarely use it as I use a launcher.
      - nottorp 5mo ago
        > The corners are huge, even when maximized. Upgraded to Mac OS 26? > You can hide it. I rarely use it as I use a launcher. Cmd+Space, type first letters of application name, enter.
        altcognito 4mo ago
        I definitely use this, but if you want to navigate to specific window on an app, prepare to be annoyed. MacOS doesn't really have a window manager, it has an app switcher, and a really inconvenient way to pick the context of your workspace.
- glenstein 5mo ago
  Pretty sure Linux has had this capability since the 90s.
- pjerem 5mo ago
  Wow, this feature is so broken on macOS (I have a family shared Air M2) since at least a full decade that it's really not what I would have take as an example. OTOH, switching users on Gnome or KDE login managers is flawless.
simonsan 5mo ago
> I run Asahi on another M1 MBP and Linux makes it the best laptop I've ever used. Until you need to repair something or change some hardware ... Which is something the author of the article totally neglects, IMHO.
- erooke 5mo ago
  Totally neglects? FTA: > The Framework is more expensive, slower (in most cases), louder (its fan ramps up quite often), has a pretty poor display, but it is a touchscreen, has a 360° hinge, and is more repairable and upgradeable. > While the Neo is probably one of the easiest Mac laptops to repair in recent memory, the Framework 12 allows you to upgrade components including a DDR5 SODIMM, 2230-sized NVMe SSD, WiFi card, and even four modular ports around the sides. I outfitted mine with 2x USB-C, 1x USB-A, and 1x full-size HDMI.
- dbg31415 5mo ago
  I’ve had MacBook Pros for as long as they’ve existed and, honestly, I’ve never needed a repair. The only real issue I’ve had was when I dropped one and destroyed the screen. It was covered by AppleCare, and Apple replaced it. I usually get a new laptop every 3 to 4 years and pass the old one to family members. My dad is still using one that’s about 10 years old and it works fine for what he needs. No issues. So the repair argument is a bit hard for me to relate to. I understand things break. But I also think taking reasonable care of your stuff goes a long way. “A stitch in time saves nine,” right? I guess I’ve replaced the feet on a few of them but that’s a $5 dollar kit from Amazon and a screwdriver and a little bit of glue… And for normal wear and tear, like battery life, Apple laptops can get a battery replacement through the Apple Store for a pretty reasonable cost. Anyway, Apple makes good product products that don’t really break from me or my family. I’ve been really happy with all their stuff. I had way worse luck, for example, building a PC to game on. Two or three years and I had to replace the power supply and I think four years and I had to replace the SSD. Like those things were annoying. I’ve never had hardware from Apple go bad on me. (Not since I had a Performa 5200 and they had to send somebody out to fix the logic board.)
  - kelnos 4mo ago
runeks 4mo ago
> That said the hardware is great, I run Asahi on another M1 MBP and Linux makes it the best laptop I've ever used. I'm considering going this way on my M1 MBP. Is there anything you miss wrt. hardware compatibility?
- clircle 4mo ago
  Pro motion and battery life for me
  - regexorcist 4mo ago
    Pro motion has been working for a while, you can get 120Hz now.
    - klardotsh 4mo ago
      My understanding from a friend who has one of these machines is that while 120Hz works, VRR does not and so the panel can’t clock down to save battery life when you’re just idling staring at a terminal. (Not that I know all that well how good Linux machines are at clocking down anyway - my XPS and desktop both have VRR panels, but for all I know Niri runs them at full bore at all times - haven’t tried to measure, wouldn’t even know where to start)
  - holysoles 4mo ago
    +1 on battery life, though it has been improving: my idle battery usage is a lot better than a year ago.
mannanj 4mo ago
Is it possible to use M1's efficiency on Linux, i.e. is battery life comparable for you on Linux vs Mac?
kwdev 4mo ago
This. Working with a mac again feels so limiting and the amount of stupid UX is actively hurting my productivity. Sure can be just practice, but the ability to customize my Linux machine exactly to how I like to work was so powerful. There are also what I would call bugs that I don't understand how they are a thing. Like how window/desktop switching is slow to change app focus.
pjmlp 4mo ago
The first error is assuming all UNIXes are Linux distros. Which is what many folks buying Apple laptops do. An BSD, Aix, Solaris user would face similar problems.

commandersaki 5mo ago

Funny it’s the opposite for me. What if I want to switch between desktops of multiple users; easy with fast user switching, not really a thing in Linux (yeah I’m sure it can be hacked up, but bleh).

treve 5mo ago
Linux had this well before OS X
- wpm 5mo ago
  Does it still or was it another of the things cut in Wayland?
  - treve 5mo ago
    Still does. On gnome you can switch via the lock screen.
    - rbanffy 4mo ago
      I miss the 3D cube and the wobbly windows.
      - tiberious726 4mo ago
        Install the plasma add-ons package if you're on KDE, I'm sure there's still something around for gnome too. Burning windows away on close is my favorite
  - regexorcist 5mo ago
    Do you and OP even know what you are referring to? https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Display_manager https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Display_manager
thefossguy69 5mo ago
The biggest papercut preventing me from being productive on macOS is it's horrible window management which cannot be traversed with keyboard shortcuts like one does in WMs like bspwm and others on Linux and that absolutely insane ~500 ms delay in setting the focused window when moving between virtual desktops. For some reason, Apple's ideal desktop experience is tailored around focusing on one application at a time. Which is certainly true for some workflows, but that's not me.
- altcognito 5mo ago
  It is bizarro. With multi monitor sometimes I click windows and things don’t show. Dragging when more than one dialog is open is unpredictable. The corners are huge, even when maximized. Even the vaunted application bar is so weird - and windows is trying to copy it! Why can’t we use the entire bottom of the screen? Apps don’t show there anyway! You can’t get rid of it and replace it with something else? Just not allowed. Stretch an app across two monitors? Not with that config! Display port? Oh no! Scaling cleanly? Never heard of it. Seriously bad stuff. I’ve thought about writing a book with everything wrong with it. It’s bonkers.
  - tonyedgecombe 5mo ago
    >You can’t get rid of it and replace it with something else? You can hide it. I rarely use it as I use a launcher.
    - nottorp 5mo ago
      > The corners are huge, even when maximized. Upgraded to Mac OS 26? > You can hide it. I rarely use it as I use a launcher. Cmd+Space, type first letters of application name, enter.
      - altcognito 4mo ago
        I definitely use this, but if you want to navigate to specific window on an app, prepare to be annoyed. MacOS doesn't really have a window manager, it has an app switcher, and a really inconvenient way to pick the context of your workspace.
glenstein 5mo ago
Pretty sure Linux has had this capability since the 90s.
pjerem 5mo ago
Wow, this feature is so broken on macOS (I have a family shared Air M2) since at least a full decade that it's really not what I would have take as an example. OTOH, switching users on Gnome or KDE login managers is flawless.

simonsan 5mo ago

> I run Asahi on another M1 MBP and Linux makes it the best laptop I've ever used. Until you need to repair something or change some hardware ... Which is something the author of the article totally neglects, IMHO.

erooke 5mo ago
Totally neglects? FTA: > The Framework is more expensive, slower (in most cases), louder (its fan ramps up quite often), has a pretty poor display, but it is a touchscreen, has a 360° hinge, and is more repairable and upgradeable. > While the Neo is probably one of the easiest Mac laptops to repair in recent memory, the Framework 12 allows you to upgrade components including a DDR5 SODIMM, 2230-sized NVMe SSD, WiFi card, and even four modular ports around the sides. I outfitted mine with 2x USB-C, 1x USB-A, and 1x full-size HDMI.
dbg31415 5mo ago
I’ve had MacBook Pros for as long as they’ve existed and, honestly, I’ve never needed a repair. The only real issue I’ve had was when I dropped one and destroyed the screen. It was covered by AppleCare, and Apple replaced it. I usually get a new laptop every 3 to 4 years and pass the old one to family members. My dad is still using one that’s about 10 years old and it works fine for what he needs. No issues. So the repair argument is a bit hard for me to relate to. I understand things break. But I also think taking reasonable care of your stuff goes a long way. “A stitch in time saves nine,” right? I guess I’ve replaced the feet on a few of them but that’s a $5 dollar kit from Amazon and a screwdriver and a little bit of glue… And for normal wear and tear, like battery life, Apple laptops can get a battery replacement through the Apple Store for a pretty reasonable cost. Anyway, Apple makes good product products that don’t really break from me or my family. I’ve been really happy with all their stuff. I had way worse luck, for example, building a PC to game on. Two or three years and I had to replace the power supply and I think four years and I had to replace the SSD. Like those things were annoying. I’ve never had hardware from Apple go bad on me. (Not since I had a Performa 5200 and they had to send somebody out to fix the logic board.)
- kelnos 4mo ago

runeks 4mo ago

> That said the hardware is great, I run Asahi on another M1 MBP and Linux makes it the best laptop I've ever used. I'm considering going this way on my M1 MBP. Is there anything you miss wrt. hardware compatibility?

clircle 4mo ago
Pro motion and battery life for me
- regexorcist 4mo ago
  Pro motion has been working for a while, you can get 120Hz now.
  - klardotsh 4mo ago
    My understanding from a friend who has one of these machines is that while 120Hz works, VRR does not and so the panel can’t clock down to save battery life when you’re just idling staring at a terminal. (Not that I know all that well how good Linux machines are at clocking down anyway - my XPS and desktop both have VRR panels, but for all I know Niri runs them at full bore at all times - haven’t tried to measure, wouldn’t even know where to start)
- holysoles 4mo ago
  +1 on battery life, though it has been improving: my idle battery usage is a lot better than a year ago.

mannanj 4mo ago

Is it possible to use M1's efficiency on Linux, i.e. is battery life comparable for you on Linux vs Mac?

kwdev 4mo ago

This. Working with a mac again feels so limiting and the amount of stupid UX is actively hurting my productivity. Sure can be just practice, but the ability to customize my Linux machine exactly to how I like to work was so powerful. There are also what I would call bugs that I don't understand how they are a thing. Like how window/desktop switching is slow to change app focus.

pjmlp 4mo ago

The first error is assuming all UNIXes are Linux distros. Which is what many folks buying Apple laptops do. An BSD, Aix, Solaris user would face similar problems.