4 ms·

> Unions are the only legal way for workers to improve their situation around compensation and working conditions. How about going to work somewhere with bette

by shric 4mo ago

> Unions are the only legal way for workers to improve their situation around compensation and working conditions. How about going to work somewhere with better compensation and working conditions?

toomuchtodo 4mo ago
Individual exit is a short-term solution to a systemic problem. Unions raise the floor, and you have no power otherwise. “Be lucky” is not a strategy that scales. If workers could easily find jobs where employers aren’t maxing extraction at the lowest cost possible, your proposal might be realistic. In this timeline, it is a suboptimal proposal. > Today, the US Treasury Department released a first-of-its-kind report on labor unions, highlighting the evidence that unions serve to strengthen the middle class and grow the economy at large. Over the last half century, middle-class households have experienced stagnating wages, rising income volatility, and reduced intergenerational mobility, even as the economy as a whole has prospered. Unions can improve the well-being of middle-class workers in ways that directly combat these negative trends. Pro-union policy can make a real difference to middle-class households by raising their incomes, improving their work environments, and boosting their job satisfaction. In doing so, unions can help to make the economy more equitable and robust. https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/labor-unions-and-the-us-economy https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/labor-unions... https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/Labor-Unions-And-The-Middle-Class.pdf https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/Labor-Unions-And-... (“if you want to go fast, go alone; if you want to go far, go together”)
- shric 4mo ago
  You said “Unions are the *only legal way* for workers to improve their situation around compensation and working conditions.” (Emphasis mine) My reply was not to say unions were bad or ineffective at accomplishing the goal, it was simply refuting your blanket statement.
  - deleted 4mo ago
    [deleted]
  - spopejoy 4mo ago
    In case you haven't noticed, the era of sw devs being able to leave and find better conditions/pay anytime they want is gone. But even in the good old ZIRP days, leaving for better pay is not an action that can be taken collectively. OP said "workers" not "worker": if you want to improve conditions at a given company, collective bargaining is all you have.
  - kelnos 4mo ago
    I don't think that blanket statement is false if you interpret "workers" as "workers as a whole" (as I did when I first read it). Certainly an individual worker can quit and (try to) find a better-paying/better-hours job, but as GP notes, that method does not scale very far.
mrkpdl 4mo ago
> How about going to work somewhere with better compensation and working conditions? Generally the reason there is a company that has better working conditions and compensation to go to is because of their union… so…
- jayGlow 4mo ago
  or because they're trying to attract talent?
saghm 4mo ago
That works when labor is higher enough in demand for that to be possible, and in practice management is most likely to try to get away with lower compensation and poor working conditions.

by shric 4mo ago

> Unions are the only legal way for workers to improve their situation around compensation and working conditions. How about going to work somewhere with better compensation and working conditions?

toomuchtodo 4mo ago

Individual exit is a short-term solution to a systemic problem. Unions raise the floor, and you have no power otherwise. “Be lucky” is not a strategy that scales. If workers could easily find jobs where employers aren’t maxing extraction at the lowest cost possible, your proposal might be realistic. In this timeline, it is a suboptimal proposal. > Today, the US Treasury Department released a first-of-its-kind report on labor unions, highlighting the evidence that unions serve to strengthen the middle class and grow the economy at large. Over the last half century, middle-class households have experienced stagnating wages, rising income volatility, and reduced intergenerational mobility, even as the economy as a whole has prospered. Unions can improve the well-being of middle-class workers in ways that directly combat these negative trends. Pro-union policy can make a real difference to middle-class households by raising their incomes, improving their work environments, and boosting their job satisfaction. In doing so, unions can help to make the economy more equitable and robust. https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/labor-unions-and-the-us-economy https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/labor-unions... https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/Labor-Unions-And-The-Middle-Class.pdf https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/Labor-Unions-And-... (“if you want to go fast, go alone; if you want to go far, go together”)

shric 4mo ago
You said “Unions are the *only legal way* for workers to improve their situation around compensation and working conditions.” (Emphasis mine) My reply was not to say unions were bad or ineffective at accomplishing the goal, it was simply refuting your blanket statement.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
- spopejoy 4mo ago
  In case you haven't noticed, the era of sw devs being able to leave and find better conditions/pay anytime they want is gone. But even in the good old ZIRP days, leaving for better pay is not an action that can be taken collectively. OP said "workers" not "worker": if you want to improve conditions at a given company, collective bargaining is all you have.
- kelnos 4mo ago
  I don't think that blanket statement is false if you interpret "workers" as "workers as a whole" (as I did when I first read it). Certainly an individual worker can quit and (try to) find a better-paying/better-hours job, but as GP notes, that method does not scale very far.

mrkpdl 4mo ago

> How about going to work somewhere with better compensation and working conditions? Generally the reason there is a company that has better working conditions and compensation to go to is because of their union… so…

jayGlow 4mo ago
or because they're trying to attract talent?

saghm 4mo ago

That works when labor is higher enough in demand for that to be possible, and in practice management is most likely to try to get away with lower compensation and poor working conditions.