4 ms·

> People in tech, especially from US, are so accustomed to spending $5,000/mo just to survive, that they cannot fathom one is able to live without having a tech

by drnick1 5mo ago

> People in tech, especially from US, are so accustomed to spending $5,000/mo just to survive, that they cannot fathom one is able to live without having a tech job in San Francisco. It's a pretty sad state of affairs. Quality of life in suburban America is incredibly high relative to a "first world" country with such a low average income. From what I have seen, most families in the "European periphery" still live in small Soviet-era apartment buildings, own one small car or no car at all, and are far from enjoying many other things taken for granted in America.

sph 5mo ago
First time I heard Northern Italy compared to Soviet Russia, but my fault for discussing this stuff with Americans, trying to pass people as poor because they only have one car. Did you know that life expectancy in US is 5-7 years lower than Western Europe? But sure, do go on about "first world" countries.
- Markoff 5mo ago
  plenty of people in Prague living on that income without car, I would really like to see how is suburban America quality of life incredibly higher than Prague LOL enjoy your museums, hospitals, free schools and playgrounds in walking distance, almost free public transport, tons of supermarkets in walking distance, etc. in suburban America
tikhonj 5mo ago
Living in a cookie-cutter suburb full of parking lots and strip malls is not, in fact, a higher standard of life than living in a small town in Europe. The fact that we've somehow convinced ourselves that it is says absolutely nothing good about American postwar culture.
Markoff 5mo ago
25000€ a year is basically Czech average salary I would really like to hear how is quality of life in suburban America incredibly higher ROFL owning a car certainly isn't tied to income, quite the opposite, poorer the person more cars they own in their junkyard
- drnick1 5mo ago
  It's quite simple really. In a place where $5,000+ monthly incomes are common, people can afford more things, and this generally means a higher quality of life. Granted, many necessities like housing are also more expensive in high income areas, but keep in mind that American homes are generally much larger than in Europe. And things like AC and clothes dryers are taken for granted.
  - Markoff 5mo ago
    got it - for you quality of life = house full of useless things for other people it's usually - lots of green, clean air, museums, cultural events, activities, accessible healthcare, accessible education, playgrounds/supermarkets/schools in walking distance, great public transport, no need to drive everywhere in empty metal box, etc. I wonder why European cities are winning always charts of best places to live and not some generic US suburb??
  - senko 5mo ago
    > And things like AC and clothes dryers are taken for granted. Not sure where you get your impression of Europe, but if you feel amenities like these are not standard, it’s a few decades out of date. North Europeans traditionally didn’t need AC, but everywhere where it gets hot - which is everywhere now - they got them installed. Very few buildings with integrated HVAC systems for the entire buildings tho, mostly independent units.
    - Markoff 5mo ago
      yeah it's funny, actually in poor Bulgaria pretty much every apartment has AC, so AC is certainly not anything to brag about, even the poorest people have it clothes dryers are just plain stupid waste of space, consume lot of energy/money, I've had washing machine with dryer, pretty much never used dryer after seeing how long it takes to dry the clothes while wasting electricity, new washing machine I bought without dryer
DamonHD 5mo ago
I do not own a car. I (/we) own outright a small home. I am happy that I do not need to own a car (in a London UK suburb). I am happy that I do not need to heat or maintain a large building. Our outgoings are low. One child is already at university and the other will be soon. My perception of a common US notion of a 'good' life only intersects somewhat with mine, and I have spent a reasonable amount of time in various US locations from SF to NYC via the midwest, etc.
senko 5mo ago
European here. Yes, houses are smaller, apartments can be comparatively tiny. Street parking can be a challenge. However: I got stores, cinemas, cafes, restaurants within walking distance. My kids can roam around in the neighbourhood without someone calling social service on me. I can walk anywhere in the city at any hour day or night without someone robbing me. I can cheaply purchase free range eggs and organic vegetables. Tap water is fine, actually excellent. 30hour commute is considered too long. Coast is mere 3h away, people come from all over the planet to enjoy it, I spend 5 weeks a year there, just chillin and enjoying life. I get fast, cheap internet, and order groceries, do my taxes and doctors appointment online. Tell me again how I’m suffering without poorly insulated detached houses, HSA, spam calls, an SUV to drive myself to the bakery, school shooting drills, healthcare bills, homeless people rejected by society, and that circus you have for a government right now?
- siren2026 5mo ago
  Agree with you. Americans have been brainwashed in thinking they absolutely need a 3000 sqft house, 2 SUVs and pay for the absolute best private schools for kids. It's the ultimate rat race. As someone that has lived in both Europe and America, the quality of life you get in America for the amount of money you spend is hilariously bad. It is easy to make money though. In Europe the quality of life you get for cheap is by default excellent. It is so difficult to make money though,
  - drnick1 5mo ago
    > In Europe the quality of life you get for cheap is by default excellent. I am been to Europe on many occasions and homes (actual homes, not cramped apartments) are not cheap at all relative to incomes. I am sure the peace of mind provided by universal healthcare and generous welfare programs is nice, but that's not how you build a strong economy. Incentives are distorted when you don't need a (good) job to live well enough. You get mediocrity, lacluster growth, poor customer service, and the other things Europe is known for. That's why you see people from all over the world come to America to build their businesses.
    - 5mo ago

by drnick1 5mo ago

sph 5mo ago

First time I heard Northern Italy compared to Soviet Russia, but my fault for discussing this stuff with Americans, trying to pass people as poor because they only have one car. Did you know that life expectancy in US is 5-7 years lower than Western Europe? But sure, do go on about "first world" countries.

Markoff 5mo ago
plenty of people in Prague living on that income without car, I would really like to see how is suburban America quality of life incredibly higher than Prague LOL enjoy your museums, hospitals, free schools and playgrounds in walking distance, almost free public transport, tons of supermarkets in walking distance, etc. in suburban America

tikhonj 5mo ago

Living in a cookie-cutter suburb full of parking lots and strip malls is not, in fact, a higher standard of life than living in a small town in Europe. The fact that we've somehow convinced ourselves that it is says absolutely nothing good about American postwar culture.

Markoff 5mo ago

25000€ a year is basically Czech average salary I would really like to hear how is quality of life in suburban America incredibly higher ROFL owning a car certainly isn't tied to income, quite the opposite, poorer the person more cars they own in their junkyard

drnick1 5mo ago
It's quite simple really. In a place where $5,000+ monthly incomes are common, people can afford more things, and this generally means a higher quality of life. Granted, many necessities like housing are also more expensive in high income areas, but keep in mind that American homes are generally much larger than in Europe. And things like AC and clothes dryers are taken for granted.
- Markoff 5mo ago
  got it - for you quality of life = house full of useless things for other people it's usually - lots of green, clean air, museums, cultural events, activities, accessible healthcare, accessible education, playgrounds/supermarkets/schools in walking distance, great public transport, no need to drive everywhere in empty metal box, etc. I wonder why European cities are winning always charts of best places to live and not some generic US suburb??
- senko 5mo ago
  > And things like AC and clothes dryers are taken for granted. Not sure where you get your impression of Europe, but if you feel amenities like these are not standard, it’s a few decades out of date. North Europeans traditionally didn’t need AC, but everywhere where it gets hot - which is everywhere now - they got them installed. Very few buildings with integrated HVAC systems for the entire buildings tho, mostly independent units.
  - Markoff 5mo ago
    yeah it's funny, actually in poor Bulgaria pretty much every apartment has AC, so AC is certainly not anything to brag about, even the poorest people have it clothes dryers are just plain stupid waste of space, consume lot of energy/money, I've had washing machine with dryer, pretty much never used dryer after seeing how long it takes to dry the clothes while wasting electricity, new washing machine I bought without dryer

DamonHD 5mo ago

I do not own a car. I (/we) own outright a small home. I am happy that I do not need to own a car (in a London UK suburb). I am happy that I do not need to heat or maintain a large building. Our outgoings are low. One child is already at university and the other will be soon. My perception of a common US notion of a 'good' life only intersects somewhat with mine, and I have spent a reasonable amount of time in various US locations from SF to NYC via the midwest, etc.

senko 5mo ago

European here. Yes, houses are smaller, apartments can be comparatively tiny. Street parking can be a challenge. However: I got stores, cinemas, cafes, restaurants within walking distance. My kids can roam around in the neighbourhood without someone calling social service on me. I can walk anywhere in the city at any hour day or night without someone robbing me. I can cheaply purchase free range eggs and organic vegetables. Tap water is fine, actually excellent. 30hour commute is considered too long. Coast is mere 3h away, people come from all over the planet to enjoy it, I spend 5 weeks a year there, just chillin and enjoying life. I get fast, cheap internet, and order groceries, do my taxes and doctors appointment online. Tell me again how I’m suffering without poorly insulated detached houses, HSA, spam calls, an SUV to drive myself to the bakery, school shooting drills, healthcare bills, homeless people rejected by society, and that circus you have for a government right now?

siren2026 5mo ago
Agree with you. Americans have been brainwashed in thinking they absolutely need a 3000 sqft house, 2 SUVs and pay for the absolute best private schools for kids. It's the ultimate rat race. As someone that has lived in both Europe and America, the quality of life you get in America for the amount of money you spend is hilariously bad. It is easy to make money though. In Europe the quality of life you get for cheap is by default excellent. It is so difficult to make money though,
- drnick1 5mo ago
  > In Europe the quality of life you get for cheap is by default excellent. I am been to Europe on many occasions and homes (actual homes, not cramped apartments) are not cheap at all relative to incomes. I am sure the peace of mind provided by universal healthcare and generous welfare programs is nice, but that's not how you build a strong economy. Incentives are distorted when you don't need a (good) job to live well enough. You get mediocrity, lacluster growth, poor customer service, and the other things Europe is known for. That's why you see people from all over the world come to America to build their businesses.
  - 5mo ago