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I could and did live frugally before I had kids. How can one continue living in a small apartment with lead and asbestos hazards is beyond me.

siren2026 5mo ago
There is surely a spectrum between small apartment with asbestos and 5m$ house. I read on HN all the time that once you have kid it is unavoidable to spend 300k$ a year. But yet 99.9% of the world and the US manages to raise kids with a fraction of that income and they turn out mostly fine. (Before you ask, yes I have kids and yes we still live simply)
- GloriousKoji 5mo ago
  The mental gymnastics I've seen kids enable is Olympic level. Need to upgrade to a bigger house, need to upgrade the car to a SUV, need keep traveling 2-3 times a year, need to sign up for some crazy sports league and coach which means domestic flights and hotels every other week.
  - siren2026 5mo ago
    Have seen that as well. Kids is the convenient excuse to go spending. Marketers have well understood that for multiple decades. Meanwhile I would bet there is an inverse correlation between spending for the kids and kids happiness.
  - deadbabe 5mo ago
    Friend had a baby. She went out and bought a massive Cadillac Escalade. To haul around a 10 pound infant.
    - deleted 5mo ago
      [deleted]
    - lazyasciiart 5mo ago
      American trucks are an arms race. You need one to protect the occupants from the other trucks on the road, unless someone legislates to stop all of you from driving them.
      - hermitcrab 5mo ago
        I feel we are engaged in the same race to the bottom in the UK, although it is not as extreme as it is in the US. One of the few constraining factors in the UK is that our car parking spaces are generally quite small and no-one wants to buy something they can't park anywhere.
      - tonyedgecombe 5mo ago
        I wonder how safe they look when you take into account the people running over their own kids in the driveway.
- gedy 5mo ago
  > There is surely a spectrum between small apartment with asbestos and 5m$ house. That's exaggerating a bit, but some places near offices are kind of that way. (Why I love working remote, which absolutely increases the spectrum of choices.)
- codeadict 5mo ago
  I have 2 kids and we have a single Kia soul and a little house I do most of the work. I pay for a good private school mostly out of fear of big schools and gun violence in the US and giving my kids multilingual education. I can assure the rich kids have a lot of problems and have a schedule like a company CEO, they go to our place and have a blast, free range fun. The kids need money thing is mostly a marketing thing the system puts into parents minds.
switchbak 5mo ago
Many of the homes in the world were built when lead and/or asbestos were in use. Asbestos isn't much of a concern if you don't disturb it - don't let your kids play in the attic or tear out the drywall, and you should be fine. Don't let them lick the paint, and you're probably good. Or paint over it / get it remediated - it doesn't have to be a deal killer. I certainly agree that it'd be hard to have kids in a small space though, I definitely appreciate having more room - especially with a WFH setup.
- drivebyhooting 5mo ago
  Don’t let your kids do X Y Z. That means you need to have your eyes on them 100% of the time.
DamonHD 5mo ago
I have asbestos in this modest[0] house: it's not any sort of a problem. (Lead only in my soldering kit in significant quantities so far as I know...) I always have been fairly frugal and am in semi-retirement now from the residues of my last two small start-ups (to which COVID was unkind, so died simultaneously!). My extended family has/had big houses, including one in which a famous film was set it seems, but I see those as mainly expensive liabilities. Never owned a car. Etc etc. [0] As described by a visiting Secretary of State!
deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
array_key_first 5mo ago
Plenty of people grow up in apartments in cities and live great lives. Often, they enjoy greater autonomy as they age into adolescence. Suburbs are basically prisons for children these days. The truth is you don’t need a home or an SUV or a front lawn to raise children. And it’s also not necessarily better for them. It might be more cushy, sure, but that doesn’t mean it materially improves their lives in any meaningful way.
- siren2026 5mo ago
  I agree with this. From my experience the more isolated and cushy early kid's life are, the less capable they end up being able to manage rough situation later in life. It's counterintuitive because as parents we feel like we need to build a golden prison in the suburbs for them.

siren2026 5mo ago

There is surely a spectrum between small apartment with asbestos and 5m$ house. I read on HN all the time that once you have kid it is unavoidable to spend 300k$ a year. But yet 99.9% of the world and the US manages to raise kids with a fraction of that income and they turn out mostly fine. (Before you ask, yes I have kids and yes we still live simply)

GloriousKoji 5mo ago
The mental gymnastics I've seen kids enable is Olympic level. Need to upgrade to a bigger house, need to upgrade the car to a SUV, need keep traveling 2-3 times a year, need to sign up for some crazy sports league and coach which means domestic flights and hotels every other week.
- siren2026 5mo ago
  Have seen that as well. Kids is the convenient excuse to go spending. Marketers have well understood that for multiple decades. Meanwhile I would bet there is an inverse correlation between spending for the kids and kids happiness.
- deadbabe 5mo ago
  Friend had a baby. She went out and bought a massive Cadillac Escalade. To haul around a 10 pound infant.
  - deleted 5mo ago
    [deleted]
  - lazyasciiart 5mo ago
    American trucks are an arms race. You need one to protect the occupants from the other trucks on the road, unless someone legislates to stop all of you from driving them.
    - hermitcrab 5mo ago
      I feel we are engaged in the same race to the bottom in the UK, although it is not as extreme as it is in the US. One of the few constraining factors in the UK is that our car parking spaces are generally quite small and no-one wants to buy something they can't park anywhere.
    - tonyedgecombe 5mo ago
      I wonder how safe they look when you take into account the people running over their own kids in the driveway.
gedy 5mo ago
> There is surely a spectrum between small apartment with asbestos and 5m$ house. That's exaggerating a bit, but some places near offices are kind of that way. (Why I love working remote, which absolutely increases the spectrum of choices.)
codeadict 5mo ago
I have 2 kids and we have a single Kia soul and a little house I do most of the work. I pay for a good private school mostly out of fear of big schools and gun violence in the US and giving my kids multilingual education. I can assure the rich kids have a lot of problems and have a schedule like a company CEO, they go to our place and have a blast, free range fun. The kids need money thing is mostly a marketing thing the system puts into parents minds.

switchbak 5mo ago

Many of the homes in the world were built when lead and/or asbestos were in use. Asbestos isn't much of a concern if you don't disturb it - don't let your kids play in the attic or tear out the drywall, and you should be fine. Don't let them lick the paint, and you're probably good. Or paint over it / get it remediated - it doesn't have to be a deal killer. I certainly agree that it'd be hard to have kids in a small space though, I definitely appreciate having more room - especially with a WFH setup.

drivebyhooting 5mo ago
Don’t let your kids do X Y Z. That means you need to have your eyes on them 100% of the time.

DamonHD 5mo ago

I have asbestos in this modest[0] house: it's not any sort of a problem. (Lead only in my soldering kit in significant quantities so far as I know...) I always have been fairly frugal and am in semi-retirement now from the residues of my last two small start-ups (to which COVID was unkind, so died simultaneously!). My extended family has/had big houses, including one in which a famous film was set it seems, but I see those as mainly expensive liabilities. Never owned a car. Etc etc. [0] As described by a visiting Secretary of State!

deleted 5mo ago

[deleted]

array_key_first 5mo ago

Plenty of people grow up in apartments in cities and live great lives. Often, they enjoy greater autonomy as they age into adolescence. Suburbs are basically prisons for children these days. The truth is you don’t need a home or an SUV or a front lawn to raise children. And it’s also not necessarily better for them. It might be more cushy, sure, but that doesn’t mean it materially improves their lives in any meaningful way.

siren2026 5mo ago
I agree with this. From my experience the more isolated and cushy early kid's life are, the less capable they end up being able to manage rough situation later in life. It's counterintuitive because as parents we feel like we need to build a golden prison in the suburbs for them.