5 ms·

> Average hours worked in Japan are comparable to the UK and significantly lower than the US, Canada, Czechia, and Israel How trustworthy is that data? It clai

> Average hours worked in Japan are comparable to the UK and significantly lower than the US, Canada, Czechia, and Israel How trustworthy is that data? It claims to count only employed people, but for Japan it works out to 6.2 hours work per day, 5 days a week. Yet we all hear stories of workers in Japan having basically no life outside of work. And when people visit Japan, they report things like everything being spotless, and trash containers and trucks being washed daily - labor intensive things. Something doesn't add up.

alephnerd 5mo ago
> How trustworthy is that data Very. This is the OECD. > Yet we all hear stories of workers in Japan having basically no life outside of work These anecdotes tend to be decades old. After the labor code changes in 2018; the new generation of Japanese megacorps like SoftBank, Rakuten, Mercari, and LY normalizing Western work culture; and the worker shortage in the 2010s, work hours reduced. > And when people visit Japan, they report things like everything being spotless, and trash containers and trucks being washed daily This is done by guest workers brought in from ASEAN, China, and Nepal in exploitative Gulf-style labor programs that are de facto bonded labor and at least back in Vietnam have ties with organized crime. The Japanese Ministry of Labor literally has a formal strategy around recruiting guestworkers for janatorial and cleaning work [0]. This is also why the new government is cracking down on such kinds of abuses [1]. [0] - https://www.mhlw.go.jp/content/11130500/001567071.pdf https://www.mhlw.go.jp/content/11130500/001567071.pdf [1] - https://www.nippon.com/ja/news/yjj2026052200262/ https://www.nippon.com/ja/news/yjj2026052200262/
- like_any_other 5mo ago
  > This is done by guest workers brought in from ASEAN, China, and Nepal.. Japan has only 3.3% immigrants. For comparison, Canada has 23%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Canada
  - alephnerd 5mo ago
    Yep, but foreign workers make up the overwhelming majority of janitorial and sanitation employees in Japan [0]. Same with agriculture [1][2][3] and textiles/garments [4]. Look, it may feel shocking to you as a Brit, but yes Japanese work life has become significantly chiller and QoL is better than the UK. They didn't have 15 years of austerity as well as Brexit, and were largely sheltered from the Great Recession and Eurozone crisis due to their trade ties in Asia and North America. They also invested heavily in automation which meant less hands needed for menial work as well as disinvesting in rural and low population regions (most comments about cleanliness tend to be centered within the richer areas of Tokyo). [0] - https://www.mhlw.go.jp/content/11130500/001567071.pdf https://www.mhlw.go.jp/content/11130500/001567071.pdf [1] - https://mainichi.jp/articles/20251121/k00/00m/040/139000c https://mainichi.jp/articles/20251121/k00/00m/040/139000c [2] - https://mainichi.jp/articles/20251121/k00/00m/040/125000c https://mainichi.jp/articles/20251121/k00/00m/040/125000c [3] - https://mainichi.jp/articles/20251121/k00/00m/040/132000c https://mainichi.jp/articles/20251121/k00/00m/040/132000c [4] - https://www.meti.go.jp/shingikai/sankoshin/seizo_sangyo/textile_industry/pdf/016_07_00.pdf https://www.meti.go.jp/shingikai/sankoshin/seizo_sangyo/text...

alephnerd 5mo ago

> How trustworthy is that data Very. This is the OECD. > Yet we all hear stories of workers in Japan having basically no life outside of work These anecdotes tend to be decades old. After the labor code changes in 2018; the new generation of Japanese megacorps like SoftBank, Rakuten, Mercari, and LY normalizing Western work culture; and the worker shortage in the 2010s, work hours reduced. > And when people visit Japan, they report things like everything being spotless, and trash containers and trucks being washed daily This is done by guest workers brought in from ASEAN, China, and Nepal in exploitative Gulf-style labor programs that are de facto bonded labor and at least back in Vietnam have ties with organized crime. The Japanese Ministry of Labor literally has a formal strategy around recruiting guestworkers for janatorial and cleaning work [0]. This is also why the new government is cracking down on such kinds of abuses [1]. [0] - https://www.mhlw.go.jp/content/11130500/001567071.pdf https://www.mhlw.go.jp/content/11130500/001567071.pdf [1] - https://www.nippon.com/ja/news/yjj2026052200262/ https://www.nippon.com/ja/news/yjj2026052200262/

like_any_other 5mo ago
> This is done by guest workers brought in from ASEAN, China, and Nepal.. Japan has only 3.3% immigrants. For comparison, Canada has 23%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Canada
- alephnerd 5mo ago
  Yep, but foreign workers make up the overwhelming majority of janitorial and sanitation employees in Japan [0]. Same with agriculture [1][2][3] and textiles/garments [4]. Look, it may feel shocking to you as a Brit, but yes Japanese work life has become significantly chiller and QoL is better than the UK. They didn't have 15 years of austerity as well as Brexit, and were largely sheltered from the Great Recession and Eurozone crisis due to their trade ties in Asia and North America. They also invested heavily in automation which meant less hands needed for menial work as well as disinvesting in rural and low population regions (most comments about cleanliness tend to be centered within the richer areas of Tokyo). [0] - https://www.mhlw.go.jp/content/11130500/001567071.pdf https://www.mhlw.go.jp/content/11130500/001567071.pdf [1] - https://mainichi.jp/articles/20251121/k00/00m/040/139000c https://mainichi.jp/articles/20251121/k00/00m/040/139000c [2] - https://mainichi.jp/articles/20251121/k00/00m/040/125000c https://mainichi.jp/articles/20251121/k00/00m/040/125000c [3] - https://mainichi.jp/articles/20251121/k00/00m/040/132000c https://mainichi.jp/articles/20251121/k00/00m/040/132000c [4] - https://www.meti.go.jp/shingikai/sankoshin/seizo_sangyo/textile_industry/pdf/016_07_00.pdf https://www.meti.go.jp/shingikai/sankoshin/seizo_sangyo/text...