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Israel has been at this for awhile. One problem with engaging an enemy is that you enter an interplay, a dialectic if you will, with them. As you shape them,
by bm3719 4mo ago
Israel has been at this for awhile. One problem with engaging an enemy is that you enter an interplay, a dialectic if you will, with them. As you shape them, so may they do the same to you. Certainly war has shaped Israeli society, and being able to accommodate the nature of their enemy has been not just something that would happen, but also a necessity of survival. Note that this also works in the other direction. By now, their enemy cannot be pure savage and them pure civilization, for this dialectic is a violent progression towards a (perhaps distant) barycenter.
So, those of us who look upon Isreal in their current state in moral arbitration should consider keeping this in mind. Their current state of being is not simply innate to themselves, rather some kind of dialectic sublation of them and the enemy. Even if you don't care much about this conflict, it's a model worth considering, since the rest of us here in the West also have a history of voluntarily entering into this cultural exchange of sorts with various middle eastern societies. In some ways, the barrier remains for us, hence our hapless bumbling in the region. Those misunderstandings result in expensive mistakes, of course, but perhaps it's better than full sublation, a violent dance of mutual becoming.
- spwa4 4mo ago[flagged]
- RobMurray 4mo agoYeah, all Israel ever wanted was peace. That's why they stole land that was already populated, and continue to take more and more. Bomb women and children. confiscate baby formula. starve innocent people. destroy their homes and schools. Perfect way to keep peace.
- spwa4 4mo agoI always find it funny that people defend muslim agression by claiming people stole land from them. Islam is a continuation of the Roman empire. The very foundation of Roman, and islamic economy was conquering lands, enslaving the population and mining the conquests for natural resources. 100% of muslim lands were stolen from others. Every square millimeter. The early muslims were raiders and thieves, people banished from their tribes, their cities. EVERYTHING they ever occupied was stolen. Mecca? Stolen. Damascus? Stolen. Jerusalem? Stolen. Medina? Stolen. Cairo? Stolen. Every last bit of space they ever occupied is conquered, or as you put it: "stolen lands". When will the stolen lands be given back? An additional level of humor is added by the obvious fact that land is not what's creating wealth. Hasn't been for centuries. What's creating wealth is people and technology. Excactly what Palestinians and muslims are attempting to chase out. Which means the great reward Palestinians are killing, torturing and dying for ... is poverty. If they win, Palestine will be far worse off than any of the neighboring countries, Palestinians will desperately emigrate and abandon it. On top of that this is an area of the world where fresh water has to be either designed or imported. Poverty in those areas will not just mean living in squalor, it will mean death. The best possible thing that could happen to Palestinians is that they comprehensively lose this conflict. In fact, that they lose to the point the cause is entirely lost. For the people living in Gaza and the West bank, that would be by far the best possible outcome. That Palestinians and muslims in general realize that the "fouding myth" of their society is like any other founding myth. A cute story for the children, that really describes an ugly, sordid, inhumane past that nobody, and we mean absolutely nobody, wants to return to.
- RobMurray 4mo agowow! are you really saying that Palestinian children should have no rights because of something their ancestors did? Should people get to violently remove them from their homes and land because of something written in history books? It's honestly shocking to me that there are humans in the world who are comfortable defending such evil with some perceived amusing fact from history. This is happening today! The killing of people in their thousands based on their ethnicity is happening today. There is no defence for that. It's not war, it is genocide. That isn't some wild internet conspiracy theory, it is a consensus of genocide scholars. But I guess you will go on with being "amused" at any argument about stolen land, even though there isn't a human on earth who's ancestors haven't done terrible things. We should be better than that in the 21st century.
- sbayg 4mo agoSpousal abuse is often explained in similar fashion, if a bit less eloquently, by the abuser.