4 ms·

I'm confused how Nordic countries accepted linking banking login with government ID. Neither of them is your friend and both of them are not a friend in a compl

I'm confused how Nordic countries accepted linking banking login with government ID. Neither of them is your friend and both of them are not a friend in a completely different way.

Daunk 5mo ago
Probably because they're not corrupt America. They don't walk around checking their back every minute for "Uncle Freedom" screwing them over.
- tamimio 5mo ago
  It isn’t about corruption, when your data is now shared freely with other “partners”. > Norway, Sweden, and Israel partner to test CBDCs (https://reclaimthenet.org/norway-sweden-and-israel-partner-to-test-cbdcs https://reclaimthenet.org/norway-sweden-and-israel-partner-t...) Debanking someone is basically ending their lives in modern days, when your ID is linked to the banks, an ID that’s also to be used for digital services, you could get debanked for criticizing a politician in the future, for example. And uncle freedom sure will get that data from their “closest ally”, not to mention any breaches like what happened in Sweden recently, a country that also wants to strap tracking on 13yo. Digital ID is a nightmare anywhere’s used, it will turn any government into a totalitarian state.
  - Daunk 5mo ago
    I absolutely agree. I just don't like this American superiority on HN.
    - philipallstar 5mo ago
      You're the one mentioning America.
  - rokkamokka 5mo ago
    How is this different from any other form of identification? If you are stripped of that you still wouldn't be able to access these services.
    - M95D 5mo ago
      I never heard of an ID card being revoked. Reasons for refusing to renew it are also very few in my country - like not having a place to live (owned or rented).
      - FpUser 5mo ago
        So homeless might be refused ID? They're no longer a person?
        lifestyleguru 5mo ago
        What otherwise will you do with people priced out of the real estate market and unable to compile valid elaborate application documents to rent something? /s
        FpUser 5mo ago
        Soylent Green?
    - tamimio 5mo ago
      The difference is the link between your digital footprint and real life one. Without a digital ID, there’s a huge margin of using many digital services while maintaining a privacy, even more, anonymity too. With a digital ID, there’s a connected link between the two, further expanding the surveillance capabilities, coupled with AI to profile user’s sentiment and emotions (in Canada, they admit that will be one of the use cases https://www.canada.ca/en/government/system/digital-government/digital-government-innovations/responsible-use-ai/consultations-ai-strategy-federal-public-service-what-we-heard.html https://www.canada.ca/en/government/system/digital-governmen...), you will end up in some monitored list for just stating some online opinions, if not even getting a visit, or more. There are even tools are being sold to do that, an israeli company called logivote made a tool to scan the social media and check who bad mouthed the politicians. So expect in the near future, you bad mouth one, you get sent to jail the next day, or debanked.
tyfon 5mo ago
It's not linking banking login with government id. It is a story of the banks solving an issue with remote identification and the system working well enough that the public/government also want to use it for other things. Being able to sign contracts, engage with the healthcare system, file taxes, read messages from the government and do general banking without having to leave the home is a massive convenience boost. We are a high trust society where the government or the banks are not out to "get you". The majority of the banks (not by volume but by numbers) are even in a structure without any ownership of the capital except for the depositors, and most of the profit from these banks that is not used to build the capital further is handed out to customers and/or the local community.
- thyristan 5mo ago
  > We are a high trust society where the government or the banks are not out to "get you". That's not the meaning of a "high trust society". You are _trusting_ that the banks and the government are not out to get you. That doesn't mean that they _really_ aren't out to get you. You just believe they aren't and haven't yet been disappointed enough to change your belief... Edit: and the original article shows btw. that there is yet another failure mode, not only "out to get you". It's that the banks and the government obviously don't care a bit if some people are intentionally left behind.
hobofan 5mo ago
That seems better than the alternative in Belgium. There the prevalent ID app "itsme" was launched by a consortium of banks. Last year the government launched an goverment owned alternative "myGov" and now has to claw back market share, which I don't see working out.
woliveirajr 5mo ago
Brazil has the same. It's possible to login in the government platform by your bank login. Simplifies a lot for the general population that won't use password managers and so on. And, as banks use a 2FA, security is improved.
type0 5mo ago
Debanking is a thing even in the Nordics, people just don't care about exceptions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante

I'm confused how Nordic countries accepted linking banking login with government ID. Neither of them is your friend and both of them are not a friend in a completely different way.

Daunk 5mo ago

Probably because they're not corrupt America. They don't walk around checking their back every minute for "Uncle Freedom" screwing them over.

tamimio 5mo ago
It isn’t about corruption, when your data is now shared freely with other “partners”. > Norway, Sweden, and Israel partner to test CBDCs (https://reclaimthenet.org/norway-sweden-and-israel-partner-to-test-cbdcs https://reclaimthenet.org/norway-sweden-and-israel-partner-t...) Debanking someone is basically ending their lives in modern days, when your ID is linked to the banks, an ID that’s also to be used for digital services, you could get debanked for criticizing a politician in the future, for example. And uncle freedom sure will get that data from their “closest ally”, not to mention any breaches like what happened in Sweden recently, a country that also wants to strap tracking on 13yo. Digital ID is a nightmare anywhere’s used, it will turn any government into a totalitarian state.
- Daunk 5mo ago
  I absolutely agree. I just don't like this American superiority on HN.
  - philipallstar 5mo ago
    You're the one mentioning America.
- rokkamokka 5mo ago
  How is this different from any other form of identification? If you are stripped of that you still wouldn't be able to access these services.
  - M95D 5mo ago
    I never heard of an ID card being revoked. Reasons for refusing to renew it are also very few in my country - like not having a place to live (owned or rented).
    - FpUser 5mo ago
      So homeless might be refused ID? They're no longer a person?
      - lifestyleguru 5mo ago
        What otherwise will you do with people priced out of the real estate market and unable to compile valid elaborate application documents to rent something? /s
        FpUser 5mo ago
        Soylent Green?
  - tamimio 5mo ago
    The difference is the link between your digital footprint and real life one. Without a digital ID, there’s a huge margin of using many digital services while maintaining a privacy, even more, anonymity too. With a digital ID, there’s a connected link between the two, further expanding the surveillance capabilities, coupled with AI to profile user’s sentiment and emotions (in Canada, they admit that will be one of the use cases https://www.canada.ca/en/government/system/digital-government/digital-government-innovations/responsible-use-ai/consultations-ai-strategy-federal-public-service-what-we-heard.html https://www.canada.ca/en/government/system/digital-governmen...), you will end up in some monitored list for just stating some online opinions, if not even getting a visit, or more. There are even tools are being sold to do that, an israeli company called logivote made a tool to scan the social media and check who bad mouthed the politicians. So expect in the near future, you bad mouth one, you get sent to jail the next day, or debanked.

tyfon 5mo ago

It's not linking banking login with government id. It is a story of the banks solving an issue with remote identification and the system working well enough that the public/government also want to use it for other things. Being able to sign contracts, engage with the healthcare system, file taxes, read messages from the government and do general banking without having to leave the home is a massive convenience boost. We are a high trust society where the government or the banks are not out to "get you". The majority of the banks (not by volume but by numbers) are even in a structure without any ownership of the capital except for the depositors, and most of the profit from these banks that is not used to build the capital further is handed out to customers and/or the local community.

thyristan 5mo ago
> We are a high trust society where the government or the banks are not out to "get you". That's not the meaning of a "high trust society". You are _trusting_ that the banks and the government are not out to get you. That doesn't mean that they _really_ aren't out to get you. You just believe they aren't and haven't yet been disappointed enough to change your belief... Edit: and the original article shows btw. that there is yet another failure mode, not only "out to get you". It's that the banks and the government obviously don't care a bit if some people are intentionally left behind.

hobofan 5mo ago

That seems better than the alternative in Belgium. There the prevalent ID app "itsme" was launched by a consortium of banks. Last year the government launched an goverment owned alternative "myGov" and now has to claw back market share, which I don't see working out.

woliveirajr 5mo ago

Brazil has the same. It's possible to login in the government platform by your bank login. Simplifies a lot for the general population that won't use password managers and so on. And, as banks use a 2FA, security is improved.

type0 5mo ago

Debanking is a thing even in the Nordics, people just don't care about exceptions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante