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> Please don't use such words as hackable when discussing immigration policies, and please try to look at the situation from the perspective of an immigrant. I

by eshvk 14y ago

> Please don't use such words as hackable when discussing immigration policies, and please try to look at the situation from the perspective of an immigrant. I am an immigrant on a visa, so yeah I do know both sides of the coin. The term "hackable" was used from the perspective of how USCIS looks at this. > I have experienced it on me and know what it's like when your wife cannot work, it's fucked up... If you're an american living in US then you will not understand how difficult it can be for the wife and husband. Look at it from another perspective: if family members are allowed to work then they 1. learn the language 2. better integrate into society 3. grow their career 4. become useful for the economy. You should also consider that wife is not husband's property (also true for the reverse case). If she's not allowed to work than she becomes overly dependent on the husband. I am sure you may have had bad experiences and there is no doubt that the situation can be hard. Let me offer a counter perspective: I know several immigrants who come here on H1B visas with their wives on H4 visas. From what I understand, they have two options currently : 1. Getting an F1 visa, going to school and then getting a job. 2. Getting a company to sponsor the person for an H1B and then switching from H4 to H1B. Both of these situations are hard, no doubt but not impossible. I personally know people who have done them. Yes, they are limited to people who have the money to go to school or the skillset to get a job as an H1B. > I mean com'on I'm so tired of this high-level discussions on immigration, these are people's lives you're talking about. Would you like to lose 5-10 year of your twenties, thirties only to obtain better visa? Would you like to be in the position when you're in a foreign country for multiple years and you cannot break up with your spouse only because of the visa, unless you're willing to go back to your "home" country that is not home to you anymore? I personally will somewhere else if I had to wait that long. I refuse to believe that my situation (Or that of any high skilled immigrant who gets paid well and lives a regular middle class life) is worse than the countless undocumented immigrants who get exploited for decades and live under the fear of deportation. I am not trying to create a false dichotomy here but consider this from the perspective of the people who make legislation: Why are highly skilled immigrants supposed to be first in line compared to any one else who comes in? > EDIT: My point is, if you let person into your country don't put additional barriers. If it's a family you're talking about then benchmark all the family members and then decided whether to let them in or not, don't create second class citizens. I don't disagree with you in general. However, my comments were strictly from a policy perspective: The purpose of the H1B is to let people in so that they can temporarily fill a need for highly skilled labor. The rules associated with that visa are what they are.

notimetorelax 14y ago
Sure there are always workarounds and in the end spouse can always look for someone to sponsor application for working visa, but good luck with getting it if you had no or little experience. Going back to school doesn't really solve the problem of spouse being attached to the main visa holder (AFAIK education in US can be quite expensive). What I dislike the most about H1B visa is that it is almost the only way to start working in the US which as you said aimed to temporarily fill a need for highly skilled labor. So what are the alternatives? I would be totally OK with H1B if it was limited to say 2 years with absolutely no possibility to extend it, people would not be lured to the USA with false promises of future improvement of their conditions. Last time I checked it was possible to lose H1B simply because of quota no matter how many years you've spend in the US, it's wrong. I would like to compare it to Swiss B permit. It is very hard to get one especially because of quotas on the first time applicants, but once you have it you don't have to worry anymore. To extend it all you need is to be gainfully employed (you're not tied to your original employer). Process is rather streamlined and after 6 years you receive C permit which is similar to the green card. (disclaimer: some cantons are better some are worse, in Geneva and Zurich for example they can issue L permit instead of B which is limited to 2 years without notifying the applicant, basically you learn that you have L when it's too late...) I understand that you were playing devils advocate in the original comment and I guess we agree on many points but there are many people that have never experienced it and cannot understand all the hardships of living in a foreign country with limited rights.
- eshvk 14y ago
  > Sure there are always workarounds and in the end spouse can always look for someone to sponsor application for working visa, but good luck with getting it if you had no or little experience. Going back to school doesn't really solve the problem of spouse being attached to the main visa holder (AFAIK education in US can be quite expensive). OK. Let me put it across in a different way then: Why should a person with no or little experience be allowed to take a job which could potentially be used by someone who is a citizen? > What I dislike the most about H1B visa is that it is almost the only way to start working in the US which as you said aimed to temporarily fill a need for highly skilled labor. So what are the alternatives? I would be totally OK with H1B if it was limited to say 2 years with absolutely no possibility to extend it, people would not be lured to the USA with false promises of future improvement of their conditions. Last time I checked it was possible to lose H1B simply because of quota no matter how many years you've spend in the US, it's wrong. So is your issue the time limitation itself or that time for which one can be on an H1B is two years rather than five years. > I would like to compare it to Swiss B permit. It is very hard to get one especially because of quotas on the first time applicants, but once you have it you don't have to worry anymore. To extend it all you need is to be gainfully employed (you're not tied to your original employer). Process is rather streamlined and after 6 years you receive C permit which is similar to the green card. (disclaimer: some cantons are better some are worse, in Geneva and Zurich for example they can issue L permit instead of B which is limited to 2 years without notifying the applicant, basically you learn that you have L when it's too late...) I agree that a better system must exist: Of late, I have come to the realization that the H1B is an evil system which is basically a form of white-collar slavery. However, it is going to be hard to build a scalable, robust system that benefits current citizens without exploiting future citizens.

by eshvk 14y ago

notimetorelax 14y ago

Sure there are always workarounds and in the end spouse can always look for someone to sponsor application for working visa, but good luck with getting it if you had no or little experience. Going back to school doesn't really solve the problem of spouse being attached to the main visa holder (AFAIK education in US can be quite expensive). What I dislike the most about H1B visa is that it is almost the only way to start working in the US which as you said aimed to temporarily fill a need for highly skilled labor. So what are the alternatives? I would be totally OK with H1B if it was limited to say 2 years with absolutely no possibility to extend it, people would not be lured to the USA with false promises of future improvement of their conditions. Last time I checked it was possible to lose H1B simply because of quota no matter how many years you've spend in the US, it's wrong. I would like to compare it to Swiss B permit. It is very hard to get one especially because of quotas on the first time applicants, but once you have it you don't have to worry anymore. To extend it all you need is to be gainfully employed (you're not tied to your original employer). Process is rather streamlined and after 6 years you receive C permit which is similar to the green card. (disclaimer: some cantons are better some are worse, in Geneva and Zurich for example they can issue L permit instead of B which is limited to 2 years without notifying the applicant, basically you learn that you have L when it's too late...) I understand that you were playing devils advocate in the original comment and I guess we agree on many points but there are many people that have never experienced it and cannot understand all the hardships of living in a foreign country with limited rights.

eshvk 14y ago
> Sure there are always workarounds and in the end spouse can always look for someone to sponsor application for working visa, but good luck with getting it if you had no or little experience. Going back to school doesn't really solve the problem of spouse being attached to the main visa holder (AFAIK education in US can be quite expensive). OK. Let me put it across in a different way then: Why should a person with no or little experience be allowed to take a job which could potentially be used by someone who is a citizen? > What I dislike the most about H1B visa is that it is almost the only way to start working in the US which as you said aimed to temporarily fill a need for highly skilled labor. So what are the alternatives? I would be totally OK with H1B if it was limited to say 2 years with absolutely no possibility to extend it, people would not be lured to the USA with false promises of future improvement of their conditions. Last time I checked it was possible to lose H1B simply because of quota no matter how many years you've spend in the US, it's wrong. So is your issue the time limitation itself or that time for which one can be on an H1B is two years rather than five years. > I would like to compare it to Swiss B permit. It is very hard to get one especially because of quotas on the first time applicants, but once you have it you don't have to worry anymore. To extend it all you need is to be gainfully employed (you're not tied to your original employer). Process is rather streamlined and after 6 years you receive C permit which is similar to the green card. (disclaimer: some cantons are better some are worse, in Geneva and Zurich for example they can issue L permit instead of B which is limited to 2 years without notifying the applicant, basically you learn that you have L when it's too late...) I agree that a better system must exist: Of late, I have come to the realization that the H1B is an evil system which is basically a form of white-collar slavery. However, it is going to be hard to build a scalable, robust system that benefits current citizens without exploiting future citizens.