4 ms·

That mistakes the point of education. Schools do not exist to fix every social problem, and demanding they treat fixing every social problem as their number one

by scarmig 5mo ago

That mistakes the point of education. Schools do not exist to fix every social problem, and demanding they treat fixing every social problem as their number one priority is how we got into this mess of "teach nothing but make sure everyone passes" in the first place.

hedora 5mo ago
Yes, but back when California was poorer, it had some of the best schools in the nation. Now that it's richer, the schools are collapsing, so it's really hard to argue that systematic social problems are the root cause.
- ses1984 5mo ago
  The only thing that changed is that California got richer, and it just so happens that wealth was evenly distributed. How convenient.
  - dnautics 5mo ago
    california spends about ~2.5k more per pupil in low income districts than high income districts. https://www.ppic.org/publication/financing-californias-public-schools/ https://www.ppic.org/publication/financing-californias-publi...
    - ses1984 5mo ago
      I’m not sure what this has to do with the assertion above.
  - blt 4mo ago
    California is among the US states with the highest income inequality.
- Danox 4mo ago
  in comparison to what part of the country because if you have kids, you probably want to be somewhere on the West Coast or somewhere in the northeast if you want your kids to have a better education most of the best schools secondary are in those two areas, and if you are different, speak another language there are whole areas of the country. You definitely don’t want to be in if you have kids.
59percentmore 5mo ago
>Schools do not exist to fix every social problem By law, they monopolize up to half of a child's waking life for more than half of the year. This time commitment requires that parents put at least one meal, a substantial portion of the child's physical development, and almost all of their intellectual development (and, by extension, a substantial portion of their behavioral development) in the hands of the school. If educational institutions are not taking seriously their potential influence on the social outcomes of their students, they're completely misunderstanding the practical mantle they've taken on. And so have you.
- scarmig 5mo ago
  That's one philosophy, sure. My philosophy is that schools that graduate students who are illiterate and innumerate have failed, no matter what rhetoric they put out about equity and social problems. (There are limited situations where it does make sense, logistically, for schools to provision social services. E.g. meals for students who don't have access to steady food sources. But those are relatively uncontroversial, as opposed to curricular and classroom management practices that make sacrifices of schools' educational integrity for a theoretical goal of equity, while failing to even deliver that.)
  - stogot 5mo ago
    Not only failed, but then commit a fraudulent activity to cover up their sins leading to a systemic destruction of society and theft of taxes
  - thewebguyd 5mo ago
    > schools that graduate students who are illiterate and innumerate have failed I don't disagree. But at the same time, it's also important to ask: was that child offered to learn and apply themselves in the same, stable environment as a child from a more wealthy upbringing? If the answer is no, that child was done a disservice. If the answer is yes, and they still fail, obviously don't graduate them... The goal shouldn't ever be "Just pass everyone" it should be making sure that every child has the same opportunity and circumstances to succeed.
thewebguyd 5mo ago
I said "society" not "schools." No, schools do not exist to fix every social problem. But my point was that wealth = a child more likely to reach their potential. That's a real gap, and a real social problem that needs addressed, by the powers (government) capable of addressing it. However, schools do have a duty to provide a safe and conducive environment for education. Many don't offer that. Many have meals that are inadequate, many have a bullying problem that schools refuse to address, many care more about their sports stars than they do providing equal opportunity for education, etc.
mrgoldenbrown 5mo ago
Ideally, schools shouldn't have to fix every social problem, but in practice, in modern day America, schools are stuck being the backstop. Schools shouldn't have to provide breakfast to kids, but they do because we keep cutting SNAP and other basic assistance programs. So schools need to pick up the slack, because you can't teach a kid if they're starving.

by scarmig 5mo ago

hedora 5mo ago

Yes, but back when California was poorer, it had some of the best schools in the nation. Now that it's richer, the schools are collapsing, so it's really hard to argue that systematic social problems are the root cause.

ses1984 5mo ago
The only thing that changed is that California got richer, and it just so happens that wealth was evenly distributed. How convenient.
- dnautics 5mo ago
  california spends about ~2.5k more per pupil in low income districts than high income districts. https://www.ppic.org/publication/financing-californias-public-schools/ https://www.ppic.org/publication/financing-californias-publi...
  - ses1984 5mo ago
    I’m not sure what this has to do with the assertion above.
- blt 4mo ago
  California is among the US states with the highest income inequality.
Danox 4mo ago
in comparison to what part of the country because if you have kids, you probably want to be somewhere on the West Coast or somewhere in the northeast if you want your kids to have a better education most of the best schools secondary are in those two areas, and if you are different, speak another language there are whole areas of the country. You definitely don’t want to be in if you have kids.

59percentmore 5mo ago

>Schools do not exist to fix every social problem By law, they monopolize up to half of a child's waking life for more than half of the year. This time commitment requires that parents put at least one meal, a substantial portion of the child's physical development, and almost all of their intellectual development (and, by extension, a substantial portion of their behavioral development) in the hands of the school. If educational institutions are not taking seriously their potential influence on the social outcomes of their students, they're completely misunderstanding the practical mantle they've taken on. And so have you.

scarmig 5mo ago
That's one philosophy, sure. My philosophy is that schools that graduate students who are illiterate and innumerate have failed, no matter what rhetoric they put out about equity and social problems. (There are limited situations where it does make sense, logistically, for schools to provision social services. E.g. meals for students who don't have access to steady food sources. But those are relatively uncontroversial, as opposed to curricular and classroom management practices that make sacrifices of schools' educational integrity for a theoretical goal of equity, while failing to even deliver that.)
- stogot 5mo ago
  Not only failed, but then commit a fraudulent activity to cover up their sins leading to a systemic destruction of society and theft of taxes
- thewebguyd 5mo ago
  > schools that graduate students who are illiterate and innumerate have failed I don't disagree. But at the same time, it's also important to ask: was that child offered to learn and apply themselves in the same, stable environment as a child from a more wealthy upbringing? If the answer is no, that child was done a disservice. If the answer is yes, and they still fail, obviously don't graduate them... The goal shouldn't ever be "Just pass everyone" it should be making sure that every child has the same opportunity and circumstances to succeed.

thewebguyd 5mo ago

I said "society" not "schools." No, schools do not exist to fix every social problem. But my point was that wealth = a child more likely to reach their potential. That's a real gap, and a real social problem that needs addressed, by the powers (government) capable of addressing it. However, schools do have a duty to provide a safe and conducive environment for education. Many don't offer that. Many have meals that are inadequate, many have a bullying problem that schools refuse to address, many care more about their sports stars than they do providing equal opportunity for education, etc.

mrgoldenbrown 5mo ago

Ideally, schools shouldn't have to fix every social problem, but in practice, in modern day America, schools are stuck being the backstop. Schools shouldn't have to provide breakfast to kids, but they do because we keep cutting SNAP and other basic assistance programs. So schools need to pick up the slack, because you can't teach a kid if they're starving.