7 ms·

Why time is not running out

89 points by paraschopra 14y ago

alecst 14y ago
The only way I can put my mind at ease is to realize that when I die I'll be no more human than dolphin, dust mite, seashell, moon rock, or electron. In an abstract sense my contributions to humanity mean nothing. So it makes little sense to fret about my impact on humanity, and in addition I do not strive to "live on" in the minds of humans (whatever that means) or any other beings. If you buy this philosophy then the importance of time vanishes and there is no need to pretend that you have all the time in the universe. Choosing to waste time is not objectively worse (though it may be boring) and on these grounds I agree with the author. However by the author's same reasoning it is not important to be happy either. After you have died it will not matter how you felt while you were alive. So to me the conclusion is silly. But I nevertheless enjoyed the article. I do ponder my own life from time to time and I like reading about how other people deal with the finiteness, or rather infinitesimal-ness- of it all -- just the idea terrifies me. (So does the idea of living forever -- a pretty unfortunate Catch-22.)
- chokma 14y ago
  > However by the author's same reasoning it is not important to be happy either. After you have died it will not matter how you felt while you were alive. But being happy does matter in terms of how you feel now or while living. I think one point is that it does not make me happier to worry about how big my legacy is in regard to contribution to the world in financial, technological or social ways. If I can make this world a better place, that's great, and a worthy objective. But as the goal posts are always changing, and because we are inherently limited in how much we can achieve, it is good to take time and make sure to enjoy life (as happiness not only feels good but enables greater achievements). So, be happy and do as much as you can instead of doing as much as you can and always feel bad because it will never be enough.
- paraschopra 14y ago
  You misinterpret my conclusion. It's important to be happy because psychologically (because of the way our brain is wired and evolved over thousands of years), we must seek happiness. Even if it doesn't matter after you die, why would you want to live an unhappy life? However, the same conclusion doesn't apply to spending time on "worthwhile" activities. Evolution per se doesn't care if we strive to write a new compiler, go to professional conferences or work hard at a bank earning millions. All it cares about (apart from our reproduction) is our happiness. Apparently, happiness is also linked to reproduction and many "worthwhile" activities are ultimately linked to happiness. But I'm digressing here... Brain seeks happiness and in absence creates discomfort that is by definition undesirable and that is why (so obviously) it is important to be happy even if "nothing really matters" ultimately.
  - dbaupp 14y ago
    > All it cares about (apart from our reproduction) is our happiness. This isn't quite true. All evolution cares about is reproduction, that's literally it. It only tangentially cares about happiness/earning millions/whatever if it improves reproductive ability (which they probably do).
    - mindcruzer 14y ago
      This also isn't quite true. Evolution cares about nothing. Evolution just happens.
      - pyre 14y ago
        In these discussions, just translate "cares about" as "is affected by" or "consists of".
codewright 14y ago
Time spent fretting about time is time misspent. Stop misspending your time worrying about misspending your time so that you can stop misspending your time and start living.
alexfarran 14y ago
TL;DR
- paraschopra 14y ago
  Here's the summary: if the passage of time makes you anxious that you aren't doing enough in life, consider that no matter what you do, there will always be more to do and possibly many other better and interesting things to do. So, relax and choose to be happy irrespective and in spite of what you are doing right now.
- vertis 14y ago
  And yet you found time to comment.
rpm4321 14y ago
So, I'm starting to read this and I'm thinking he's making some good points. My inner monologue goes "Maybe 35 isn't too late to reassess and turn things around?" Then I read: "I’d have nagging thoughts such as these: ‘Oh god, I’m 25 and I haven’t..." f u c k . . . .
- chucknelson 14y ago
  Hah - same feeling here. I couldn't tell if that line was poking fun at how young that is for worrying about that sort of thing or not. Just in case it is not a joke, I hope we all agree 25 is no where near any "I have no time for any more life experiences!!!" point...
  - kokey 14y ago
    I remember when I was 14 and cried myself to sleep since I was in a panic about what to do in life, I realised I had so many options from going into mathematics, medicine, engineering or music but probably never being able to be great in more than one at a time. I felt I had to choose. I'm 35 now and I still get that feeling sometime, but I have changed focus in my career often enough to know that you can have small successes and appreciate them.
- colomon 14y ago
  Not to mention the real issue of regrets isn't regrets for things you didn't do before you died. It's regrets for things you didn't do before you could no longer could do them. Those you have to live with for the rest of your life.
henrik_w 14y ago
There is a quote I like: "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time."
paganel 14y ago
As a guy at 32 I realized that there's not enough time to read crappy books. So I've since started reading only stuff that makes me understand the world around me a little more, step by step, either by reading a Philip K. Dick Novel or going through Locke's "Treatises of Government". I've discovered that trying to making more and more sense of the world around you gives you a sense of fulfillment.
- kokey 14y ago
  I have kind of cut down on reading fiction for that reason. The problem is that I seem to engage with factual material in shorter and more ad-hoc forms (e.g. while researching something) than reading entire books. A good balance for me would be fiction with a strong factual background. I'm looking out for recommendations of books of authors that does exactly this. In other words, recreational reading that accidentally expose me to useful facts and concepts.
  - sbarlster 14y ago
    I would be wary of cutting out too much fiction as some great minds put down their thoughts and ideas through fiction. e.g. Hemmingway, Orwell or Steinbeck - there are probably many others. But yes be selective.
  - thirdtruck 14y ago
    sbarlster makes a good point. Plenty of world-changing inventions came out of science fiction, for example, and I know that my attitude in life has changed for the better based on inspiration from such sources. Evolution wired our brains for storytelling at a deep level. I would encourage you to take that desire for more factual fiction and turn it into some actual drafts. Having done the same in NaNoWriMo several times now, I highly recommend the learning experience.
gaving 14y ago
That "list of things I’d want to do by the time I turn 30" list is so utterly cringe-worthy. Go to the moon? Reduce India’s poverty by at least 10%? Really?
- paraschopra 14y ago
  Yes, I call them my moonshot goals :)
- kokey 14y ago
  I always thought my goal should be to become a millionaire by the time I am 30. Failing that, put money away in a pension plan in a serious way. Then 30 happened and I was a millionaire, in the currency I grew up with and that wasn't worth much (average annual senior tech salary in a 1st world city). Expectations change, as well as the understanding of money, inflation, etc. Most importantly, that it's cheaper to hedge your bets earlier rather than later.
  - GFischer 14y ago
    It could be worse :) you reached your goal ! Now the goalposts have moved. For comparison, I'm 31, and my net worth is about 10.000 dollars :P . I definitely made a lot of suboptimal decisions along the way, but I think I'm finally on my way up. While I'm a nonbeliever (no afterlife for me), I think that the blog post misses the "experienced happiness vs remembered happiness" point that people like Kahnemann and others have talked about: http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_kahneman_the_riddle_of_experience_vs_memory.html http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_kahneman_the_riddle_of_exper... http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-good-life/201010/experienced-happiness-and-remembered-happiness-having-it-both-ways http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-good-life/201010/exp...
s3b 14y ago
Similar article : http://rahulbijlani.com/essays/you-are-not-running-out-of-time-essay/ http://rahulbijlani.com/essays/you-are-not-running-out-of-ti... http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2778342 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2778342
sneak 14y ago
The TLDR here is that the OP is a nihilist and all that really matters is your own happiness. He ignores the fact that some of us aren't happy unless we are doing something that stands to make a double-digit percentage of humans on Earth happier, cleaner, safer, healthier, or more efficient. We, the readership of HN, are privileged beyond imagination. For the most part, we are rich white educated American males. This affords us leverage in almost everything we do - some of us have actually achieved what I've described and it is not unreasonable for just about any of us to believe we can do the same... ...PROVIDED WE STOP WASTING TIME AND GET TO WORK.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- WA 14y ago
  You are under an illusion if you believe that you could improve life of humans on earth by a double-digit percentage. I cannot think of a single product/thing/whatever that accomplished the goal you mentioned. The "dent in the universe" bullshit is such hypocritical thinking that it makes me sick.
  - jQueryIsAwesome 14y ago
    Google and Facebook. Like it or not those two are already in the double-digit percentage.
    - digitalengineer 14y ago
      Google and Facebook made real dents in the universe? Well, I see your Google and FB and will raise you a humble washing machine and the invention of the pill. Both changed the world for half the population :-)
      - flyinRyan 14y ago
        Well, not literally half the population for either of those. Or do you mean half the US population?
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
Jach 14y ago
But time is running out! Unless we find a way to effectively create energy, or we find a way to upload onto a reversible computing substrate, or Dust Theory is real, or we learn how to do alpha-point/line computing, or something else that fixes the problem, our light cone of the universe is not going to be habitable for that much longer and every planck time step counts. While I can't speak for anyone else who wants to live well past 100 years, indeed well past a billion if physics permits it, at least for me it's quite the disturbing conclusion to believe "time isn't running out, just be happy and focus on the present mon!" I reject the notion that "being happy" is a binary thing or some plateau of state of mind one achieves for some duration, though I think the concept of happiness as a fuzzy cluster of feelings that make one say "I feel happy" is a useful simplification. There are many forms of happiness of many durations, some quite complex and dependent on many variables or past states of mind. The chemical soup in a happy brain has many possible configurations. Even when I feel super-happy I still wonder if perhaps there's a higher form of happiness I could achieve, and then I wonder what sorts of happiness I'd experience with a different mind design (which is why I won't wirehead indefinitely even though wireheading would give all possible forms of human happiness). To me this post really comes across not as championing "happiness is what matters", but rather the more depressing "be content with your lot in life." No sah! That's for religious folk and for people who just crossed Atheist River but haven't finished questioning all their religious indoctrination! A better message I think is simply "If you aren't feeling the way you want to feel, change something. You don't have to feel that way you know, even if changing is really hard and takes years." But that's not really profound...
- paraschopra 14y ago
  You're right we have to distinguish what happiness is and it may be different for different people. The rush one gets during a party may not be happiness. While boredom for some may be happiness. Profound or simple, what I aimed to talk about is the anxiety associated with time and our interpretation of it. It doesn't mean you have to settle in life, all it means is that don't kill yourself with anxiety if you fail to make changes. I'm not arguing for inaction, rather I'm arguing for not (unnecessarily and habitually) fretting about results.
xdev 14y ago
I doubt he can be a nihilist if he in turn values his own happiness (after all if nothing matters than why should it matter if I am happy or not). His philosophy seems more egoistic: "it makes absolutely no difference to what you are doing as long as it makes you happy (ideally, while staying within the bounds of morality and not impinging on others)." Which is not to say that it's bad, but it's not nihilism -- there is a belief there, it's what makes me happy has value. Which is fine, but simplistic. There are different types of happiness, happiness from immediate gratification and happiness from long-term goal reaching (ex. learning to play the piano). If you try to make yourself happy all the time, I think you'll find yourself seeking (or reaching) immediate gratification too often, when the long-term goals are hard, difficult, but worthy of your effort. I started running the past year, and incrementally it's difficult, uncomfortable, and painful (especially at 7:00 AM at 30 F) -- but I feel so much better and consequently happier then I did a year ago. My point is to not ignore the fact that time is running out, but to absorb the point, come to terms with it, and act with it (sort of mental Judo if you will). I prefer to understand that my time-span is limited, to accept the reality of that, and let it influence my judgment. Not in that I'm adjusting my will everyday, or worrying endlessly about the issue. However, I do make important decisions with the knowledge that my life could end tomorrow, or the next day, or next year - and how would I feel about that decision given that context.
tled 14y ago
I suggest people in their twentysomething should read this book: "The Defining Decade: Why Your Twenties Matter--And How to Make the Most of Them Now" - http://www.amazon.com/Defining-Decade-Your-Twenties-Matter/dp/0446561762 http://www.amazon.com/Defining-Decade-Your-Twenties-Matter/d...

89 points by paraschopra 14y ago

The only way I can put my mind at ease is to realize that when I die I'll be no more human than dolphin, dust mite, seashell, moon rock, or electron. In an abstract sense my contributions to humanity mean nothing. So it makes little sense to fret about my impact on humanity, and in addition I do not strive to "live on" in the minds of humans (whatever that means) or any other beings. If you buy this philosophy then the importance of time vanishes and there is no need to pretend that you have all the time in the universe. Choosing to waste time is not objectively worse (though it may be boring) and on these grounds I agree with the author. However by the author's same reasoning it is not important to be happy either. After you have died it will not matter how you felt while you were alive. So to me the conclusion is silly. But I nevertheless enjoyed the article. I do ponder my own life from time to time and I like reading about how other people deal with the finiteness, or rather infinitesimal-ness- of it all -- just the idea terrifies me. (So does the idea of living forever -- a pretty unfortunate Catch-22.)

chokma 14y ago
> However by the author's same reasoning it is not important to be happy either. After you have died it will not matter how you felt while you were alive. But being happy does matter in terms of how you feel now or while living. I think one point is that it does not make me happier to worry about how big my legacy is in regard to contribution to the world in financial, technological or social ways. If I can make this world a better place, that's great, and a worthy objective. But as the goal posts are always changing, and because we are inherently limited in how much we can achieve, it is good to take time and make sure to enjoy life (as happiness not only feels good but enables greater achievements). So, be happy and do as much as you can instead of doing as much as you can and always feel bad because it will never be enough.
paraschopra 14y ago
You misinterpret my conclusion. It's important to be happy because psychologically (because of the way our brain is wired and evolved over thousands of years), we must seek happiness. Even if it doesn't matter after you die, why would you want to live an unhappy life? However, the same conclusion doesn't apply to spending time on "worthwhile" activities. Evolution per se doesn't care if we strive to write a new compiler, go to professional conferences or work hard at a bank earning millions. All it cares about (apart from our reproduction) is our happiness. Apparently, happiness is also linked to reproduction and many "worthwhile" activities are ultimately linked to happiness. But I'm digressing here... Brain seeks happiness and in absence creates discomfort that is by definition undesirable and that is why (so obviously) it is important to be happy even if "nothing really matters" ultimately.
- dbaupp 14y ago
  > All it cares about (apart from our reproduction) is our happiness. This isn't quite true. All evolution cares about is reproduction, that's literally it. It only tangentially cares about happiness/earning millions/whatever if it improves reproductive ability (which they probably do).
  - mindcruzer 14y ago
    This also isn't quite true. Evolution cares about nothing. Evolution just happens.
    - pyre 14y ago
      In these discussions, just translate "cares about" as "is affected by" or "consists of".

codewright 14y ago

Time spent fretting about time is time misspent. Stop misspending your time worrying about misspending your time so that you can stop misspending your time and start living.

alexfarran 14y ago

TL;DR

paraschopra 14y ago
Here's the summary: if the passage of time makes you anxious that you aren't doing enough in life, consider that no matter what you do, there will always be more to do and possibly many other better and interesting things to do. So, relax and choose to be happy irrespective and in spite of what you are doing right now.
vertis 14y ago
And yet you found time to comment.

rpm4321 14y ago

So, I'm starting to read this and I'm thinking he's making some good points. My inner monologue goes "Maybe 35 isn't too late to reassess and turn things around?" Then I read: "I’d have nagging thoughts such as these: ‘Oh god, I’m 25 and I haven’t..." f u c k . . . .

chucknelson 14y ago
Hah - same feeling here. I couldn't tell if that line was poking fun at how young that is for worrying about that sort of thing or not. Just in case it is not a joke, I hope we all agree 25 is no where near any "I have no time for any more life experiences!!!" point...
- kokey 14y ago
  I remember when I was 14 and cried myself to sleep since I was in a panic about what to do in life, I realised I had so many options from going into mathematics, medicine, engineering or music but probably never being able to be great in more than one at a time. I felt I had to choose. I'm 35 now and I still get that feeling sometime, but I have changed focus in my career often enough to know that you can have small successes and appreciate them.
colomon 14y ago
Not to mention the real issue of regrets isn't regrets for things you didn't do before you died. It's regrets for things you didn't do before you could no longer could do them. Those you have to live with for the rest of your life.

henrik_w 14y ago

There is a quote I like: "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time."

paganel 14y ago

As a guy at 32 I realized that there's not enough time to read crappy books. So I've since started reading only stuff that makes me understand the world around me a little more, step by step, either by reading a Philip K. Dick Novel or going through Locke's "Treatises of Government". I've discovered that trying to making more and more sense of the world around you gives you a sense of fulfillment.

kokey 14y ago
I have kind of cut down on reading fiction for that reason. The problem is that I seem to engage with factual material in shorter and more ad-hoc forms (e.g. while researching something) than reading entire books. A good balance for me would be fiction with a strong factual background. I'm looking out for recommendations of books of authors that does exactly this. In other words, recreational reading that accidentally expose me to useful facts and concepts.
- sbarlster 14y ago
  I would be wary of cutting out too much fiction as some great minds put down their thoughts and ideas through fiction. e.g. Hemmingway, Orwell or Steinbeck - there are probably many others. But yes be selective.
- thirdtruck 14y ago
  sbarlster makes a good point. Plenty of world-changing inventions came out of science fiction, for example, and I know that my attitude in life has changed for the better based on inspiration from such sources. Evolution wired our brains for storytelling at a deep level. I would encourage you to take that desire for more factual fiction and turn it into some actual drafts. Having done the same in NaNoWriMo several times now, I highly recommend the learning experience.

gaving 14y ago

That "list of things I’d want to do by the time I turn 30" list is so utterly cringe-worthy. Go to the moon? Reduce India’s poverty by at least 10%? Really?

paraschopra 14y ago
Yes, I call them my moonshot goals :)
kokey 14y ago
I always thought my goal should be to become a millionaire by the time I am 30. Failing that, put money away in a pension plan in a serious way. Then 30 happened and I was a millionaire, in the currency I grew up with and that wasn't worth much (average annual senior tech salary in a 1st world city). Expectations change, as well as the understanding of money, inflation, etc. Most importantly, that it's cheaper to hedge your bets earlier rather than later.
- GFischer 14y ago
  It could be worse :) you reached your goal ! Now the goalposts have moved. For comparison, I'm 31, and my net worth is about 10.000 dollars :P . I definitely made a lot of suboptimal decisions along the way, but I think I'm finally on my way up. While I'm a nonbeliever (no afterlife for me), I think that the blog post misses the "experienced happiness vs remembered happiness" point that people like Kahnemann and others have talked about: http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_kahneman_the_riddle_of_experience_vs_memory.html http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_kahneman_the_riddle_of_exper... http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-good-life/201010/experienced-happiness-and-remembered-happiness-having-it-both-ways http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-good-life/201010/exp...

s3b 14y ago

Similar article : http://rahulbijlani.com/essays/you-are-not-running-out-of-time-essay/ http://rahulbijlani.com/essays/you-are-not-running-out-of-ti... http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2778342 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2778342

sneak 14y ago

The TLDR here is that the OP is a nihilist and all that really matters is your own happiness. He ignores the fact that some of us aren't happy unless we are doing something that stands to make a double-digit percentage of humans on Earth happier, cleaner, safer, healthier, or more efficient. We, the readership of HN, are privileged beyond imagination. For the most part, we are rich white educated American males. This affords us leverage in almost everything we do - some of us have actually achieved what I've described and it is not unreasonable for just about any of us to believe we can do the same... ...PROVIDED WE STOP WASTING TIME AND GET TO WORK.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
WA 14y ago
You are under an illusion if you believe that you could improve life of humans on earth by a double-digit percentage. I cannot think of a single product/thing/whatever that accomplished the goal you mentioned. The "dent in the universe" bullshit is such hypocritical thinking that it makes me sick.
- jQueryIsAwesome 14y ago
  Google and Facebook. Like it or not those two are already in the double-digit percentage.
  - digitalengineer 14y ago
    Google and Facebook made real dents in the universe? Well, I see your Google and FB and will raise you a humble washing machine and the invention of the pill. Both changed the world for half the population :-)
    - flyinRyan 14y ago
      Well, not literally half the population for either of those. Or do you mean half the US population?

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

Jach 14y ago

But time is running out! Unless we find a way to effectively create energy, or we find a way to upload onto a reversible computing substrate, or Dust Theory is real, or we learn how to do alpha-point/line computing, or something else that fixes the problem, our light cone of the universe is not going to be habitable for that much longer and every planck time step counts. While I can't speak for anyone else who wants to live well past 100 years, indeed well past a billion if physics permits it, at least for me it's quite the disturbing conclusion to believe "time isn't running out, just be happy and focus on the present mon!" I reject the notion that "being happy" is a binary thing or some plateau of state of mind one achieves for some duration, though I think the concept of happiness as a fuzzy cluster of feelings that make one say "I feel happy" is a useful simplification. There are many forms of happiness of many durations, some quite complex and dependent on many variables or past states of mind. The chemical soup in a happy brain has many possible configurations. Even when I feel super-happy I still wonder if perhaps there's a higher form of happiness I could achieve, and then I wonder what sorts of happiness I'd experience with a different mind design (which is why I won't wirehead indefinitely even though wireheading would give all possible forms of human happiness). To me this post really comes across not as championing "happiness is what matters", but rather the more depressing "be content with your lot in life." No sah! That's for religious folk and for people who just crossed Atheist River but haven't finished questioning all their religious indoctrination! A better message I think is simply "If you aren't feeling the way you want to feel, change something. You don't have to feel that way you know, even if changing is really hard and takes years." But that's not really profound...

paraschopra 14y ago
You're right we have to distinguish what happiness is and it may be different for different people. The rush one gets during a party may not be happiness. While boredom for some may be happiness. Profound or simple, what I aimed to talk about is the anxiety associated with time and our interpretation of it. It doesn't mean you have to settle in life, all it means is that don't kill yourself with anxiety if you fail to make changes. I'm not arguing for inaction, rather I'm arguing for not (unnecessarily and habitually) fretting about results.

xdev 14y ago

I doubt he can be a nihilist if he in turn values his own happiness (after all if nothing matters than why should it matter if I am happy or not). His philosophy seems more egoistic: "it makes absolutely no difference to what you are doing as long as it makes you happy (ideally, while staying within the bounds of morality and not impinging on others)." Which is not to say that it's bad, but it's not nihilism -- there is a belief there, it's what makes me happy has value. Which is fine, but simplistic. There are different types of happiness, happiness from immediate gratification and happiness from long-term goal reaching (ex. learning to play the piano). If you try to make yourself happy all the time, I think you'll find yourself seeking (or reaching) immediate gratification too often, when the long-term goals are hard, difficult, but worthy of your effort. I started running the past year, and incrementally it's difficult, uncomfortable, and painful (especially at 7:00 AM at 30 F) -- but I feel so much better and consequently happier then I did a year ago. My point is to not ignore the fact that time is running out, but to absorb the point, come to terms with it, and act with it (sort of mental Judo if you will). I prefer to understand that my time-span is limited, to accept the reality of that, and let it influence my judgment. Not in that I'm adjusting my will everyday, or worrying endlessly about the issue. However, I do make important decisions with the knowledge that my life could end tomorrow, or the next day, or next year - and how would I feel about that decision given that context.

tled 14y ago

I suggest people in their twentysomething should read this book: "The Defining Decade: Why Your Twenties Matter--And How to Make the Most of Them Now" - http://www.amazon.com/Defining-Decade-Your-Twenties-Matter/dp/0446561762 http://www.amazon.com/Defining-Decade-Your-Twenties-Matter/d...