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UBI without many other anti-capitalist reforms is just a subsidy paid directly to your landlord.

by ixtli 4mo ago

Griffinsauce 4mo ago
Where do you suggest we start? You can't nuke everything at once.
- colordrops 4mo ago
  Uh, we might have to depending on how quickly AI and robots become effective at doing most jobs.
  - flohofwoe 4mo ago
    Tbh, with the productivity gains of the last 150 years, we should already be able to easily afford another weekday off for a long time. Instead most people sit around doing bullshit jobs to kill time until the weekend.
    - colordrops 4mo ago
      There's a fundamental difference with AI though. Even though we could live easily, greed drives the class with power to continue to force more and more productivity from workers, which is the elite's only source of labor. With AI, the workers won't been the most cost effective or even necessary. Very different situation. And you must be a high paid tech worker in a bubble if you think most people are just trying to "kill time". At least in the US the majority of people are living paycheck to paycheck.
Gareth321 4mo ago
We don't want anti-capitalist reforms. Perhaps reforms like those we use in Denmark would make sense? We're ranked higher than the U.S. in ease of business. We love capitalism here. But we also have high taxes, universal healthcare, and great social safety nets. It allows us to lean into the great parts of capitalism while also protecting those for whom capitalism isn't working so well. It's a great compromise without having to go full starvation and gulags, which would be worse than what we have now.
- wallst07 4mo ago
  [dead]
- topaz0 4mo ago
  I don't know what starvation and gulags have to do with anti-capitalist reform. In this country (the USA), capitalism is what produces gulags and starvation.
  - Gareth321 4mo ago
    On the contrary. The U.S. has so much food that 72% of Americans are fat. There is simply too much tasty food available. This happened in a very short space of time, historically speaking, thanks to capitalism. As for gulags, one would need to use a very cynical definition to believe that. Especially when we have real gulags around the world today. I imply that the alternative to capitalism is starvation an gulags because that is roughly what happened the last 37 or so times humanity tried something else. That's just from the last century. Capitalism isn't perfect, but it's infinitely better than everything else.
    - topaz0 4mo ago
      My man, you suffer from capitalist realism. I don't think I can help you.
- godelski 4mo ago
  > we also have high taxes In plenty of places in the US we have high taxes and none of those things. Since it's HN I'll mention San Jose has some of the hardest water I've seen in any city and I've seen glass on the street for 6 mo before being cleaned up. I can't figure out where the taxes are actually going. Other states I've lived in I've even paid less and gotten way more. I don't think people mind paying taxes, but it's when your taxes don't clearly benefit you that people get upset. Honestly it seems to me like one party just wants to shift all costs to the poor (rather than the government) and the other wants to be the king of Nottingham. It's no surprise our citizens are feeling defeated. The choices appear to constantly be the lesser of two (geriatric) evils. Not choices between reasonable leaders, but with different beliefs

UBI without many other anti-capitalist reforms is just a subsidy paid directly to your landlord.

by ixtli 4mo ago

UBI without many other anti-capitalist reforms is just a subsidy paid directly to your landlord.

Griffinsauce 4mo ago

Where do you suggest we start? You can't nuke everything at once.

colordrops 4mo ago
Uh, we might have to depending on how quickly AI and robots become effective at doing most jobs.
- flohofwoe 4mo ago
  Tbh, with the productivity gains of the last 150 years, we should already be able to easily afford another weekday off for a long time. Instead most people sit around doing bullshit jobs to kill time until the weekend.
  - colordrops 4mo ago
    There's a fundamental difference with AI though. Even though we could live easily, greed drives the class with power to continue to force more and more productivity from workers, which is the elite's only source of labor. With AI, the workers won't been the most cost effective or even necessary. Very different situation. And you must be a high paid tech worker in a bubble if you think most people are just trying to "kill time". At least in the US the majority of people are living paycheck to paycheck.

Gareth321 4mo ago

We don't want anti-capitalist reforms. Perhaps reforms like those we use in Denmark would make sense? We're ranked higher than the U.S. in ease of business. We love capitalism here. But we also have high taxes, universal healthcare, and great social safety nets. It allows us to lean into the great parts of capitalism while also protecting those for whom capitalism isn't working so well. It's a great compromise without having to go full starvation and gulags, which would be worse than what we have now.

wallst07 4mo ago
[dead]
topaz0 4mo ago
I don't know what starvation and gulags have to do with anti-capitalist reform. In this country (the USA), capitalism is what produces gulags and starvation.
- Gareth321 4mo ago
  On the contrary. The U.S. has so much food that 72% of Americans are fat. There is simply too much tasty food available. This happened in a very short space of time, historically speaking, thanks to capitalism. As for gulags, one would need to use a very cynical definition to believe that. Especially when we have real gulags around the world today. I imply that the alternative to capitalism is starvation an gulags because that is roughly what happened the last 37 or so times humanity tried something else. That's just from the last century. Capitalism isn't perfect, but it's infinitely better than everything else.
  - topaz0 4mo ago
    My man, you suffer from capitalist realism. I don't think I can help you.
godelski 4mo ago
> we also have high taxes In plenty of places in the US we have high taxes and none of those things. Since it's HN I'll mention San Jose has some of the hardest water I've seen in any city and I've seen glass on the street for 6 mo before being cleaned up. I can't figure out where the taxes are actually going. Other states I've lived in I've even paid less and gotten way more. I don't think people mind paying taxes, but it's when your taxes don't clearly benefit you that people get upset. Honestly it seems to me like one party just wants to shift all costs to the poor (rather than the government) and the other wants to be the king of Nottingham. It's no surprise our citizens are feeling defeated. The choices appear to constantly be the lesser of two (geriatric) evils. Not choices between reasonable leaders, but with different beliefs