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I find super HARD to believe that we ran out of musicians doing music in the styles of the 80s/90s maybe your friend just doesn't want to search for new music,

I find super HARD to believe that we ran out of musicians doing music in the styles of the 80s/90s maybe your friend just doesn't want to search for new music, and that is ok, it's ok to be lazy, not a crime; but saying nobody is making such music is a sad excuse.

alwa 4mo ago
It’s also OK to like what you like. She likes Suno jams. Great! I feel like this trope is strongest amongst musicians-feeling-underappreciated, but that the idea seeps in to all manners of creative work: that, because you’re rightfully proud of what you do, the audience is wronging you (or “lazy,” or “sad,” or “cheap,” or “tasteless”) by not appreciating it. It doesn’t make me feel a lot of sympathy.
- Barbing 4mo ago
  That might be OK if Suno had compensated everybody they needed to. I feel sympathy for people who made something that was reappropriated by those without strong ethics.
  - NietTim 4mo ago
    Meanwhile you probably use Spotify or other streaming platforms without issue.
    - filoeleven 4mo ago
      Artists have to agree to be featured on Spotify, and agree to the royalty fees they receive. AI just pillaged recorded human history with zero compensation. Big difference.
- textadventure 4mo ago
  > It’s also OK to like what you like. She likes Suno jams. Great! People like what they like, sure. And if someone was particularly into the idea of machines making music, or even take some cynical enjoyment out of this on the full understanding of what it is they are doing. Sure, whatever. But someone acting like listening to AI generated music is their only choice due to their taste in music? Come on, that's a sci-fi nightmare right there. Not even going full-on ecologist here, but the resource expenditure alone is so out of whack for something only a single person will listen to. I don't even consider myself a musician, just a human being baffled at the total lack of humanity and how that lack of humanity is being normalized. Talk about sympathy.
  - galkk 4mo ago
    Is it though? Do you have calculation how much one suno song does? I work with databases, and I sometimes wonder how much energy those full table scans of the world consume, comparing to ai.
  - weberer 4mo ago
    What resource expenditure? Inference is dirt cheap, especially for a single person's prompt.
- kibibu 4mo ago
  It is, but also it's ok to silently judge people. If somebody told me "I choose to only read AI-generated books" I would also silently judge them.
  - Cthulhu_ 4mo ago
    What about the long tail of romance novels, fanfiction, etc though? 50 shades was an outlier in that it was popular but it's absolute drivel, and there is a lot of that kind of low quality writing out there.
    - jeltz 4mo ago
      I judge people who read those, yes.
    - 1718627440 4mo ago
      Which is why it is also common to silently judge these readers.
    - latexr 4mo ago
      If we’re comparing bad quality to bad quality, human bad quality is infinitely more interesting. The fact someone wrote, directed, produced, acted in, etc, in something like Troll 2 or The Room is what makes those movies special. It’s the fact you can go “god damn, someone thought this was good” and be baffled at specific decisions they made. It’s the curiosity of “what was going on there”, “what drove those individuals to do this”, “how much of it were outside forces”, “who are these people”. It’s all the reasons which make it worth it to make a movie about a bad movie. With AI, even if you enjoy it as bad, as soon as you know it’s AI it loses all interest because there’s zero story behind it. The answer to all those questions becomes “a statistical algorithm made it that way”, and that’s objectively a boring answer.
    - watwut 4mo ago
      Imo, fanfiction crowd is overall much more actively creating then your average pop culture consumers. And their engagement with reading is also a fairly active. They are more likely to write themselves and even if dont, their reading tend to be and entry point for own fantasies. I feel like the only ones who have right to judge them are people who write full on books. And those seem to be aware this crowd is also simultaneously the last crowd of actual readers buying their books here and there. Romance readers got tired of being judged for decades and decades by people who dont read at all, people who read pure power fantasies or what not.
zdragnar 4mo ago
As someone with very specific tastes in music across several genres, yes, it's hard to find new bands making what I like. Every so often I'll find one, but it's pretty rare because- surprise!- the market for people with my tastes is really small so quality production targeting me is a bad career decision. There's not much AI music I like either, but there's at least one genre where it's really, really hard to find anything both new and authentically human, so AI scratches the itch occasionally.
- Balinares 4mo ago
  Possibly contributing to making it a worse career decision is not strategically optimal.
serf 4mo ago
easily liking any kind of music only on the merit that it is human generated seems lazy, too. similarly, firing up a music gen system rather than listening to a billy joel song for the 30,000th time seems less lazy. say what you want about AI systems, people that I used to see idly sit at a screen and ingest things all day purely are creating things they like now and sharing them. The thing is easier but the engagement seems greater for a lot of people. It's not as black and white as "oh you're lazy." -- and, by the way , that seems so wildly inappropriate to label an unknown third party as site-unseen -- dare I say that seems lazy?
- habinero 4mo ago
  > people that I used to see idly sit at a screen and ingest things all day purely are creating things they like now and sharing them Like what? People say this kind of stuff all the time and it's either not true or they're generating things with very questionable taste.
  - WheatMillington 4mo ago
    Like the music being described literally in the thread you're responding to.
    - kode-targz 4mo ago
      definition of "very questionable taste"
      - WheatMillington 4mo ago
        How can you know that without even hearing it?
    - habinero 4mo ago
      Yeah, I would absolutely classify that as "questionable taste" lol.
- vintermann 4mo ago
shevy-java 4mo ago
Well, it is kind of true though. I used to listen to bboy (breakdance) music; this was ok in the 1990s for the most part. Then things changed. The music today just ... sucks. I can't listen to it anymore. And bboying is now just a tricking contest, with a certain company abusing the dancers as advertisement-robots for them ... I also see that on youtube, with constant product marketing and product logo flashing. It's annoying.
jasonfarnon 4mo ago
"your friend just doesn't want to search for new music, and that is ok, it's ok to be lazy" Actually it seems to me like what the friend was doing required a lot more effort than "searching for new music". This isn't the 80s where you have to get in with the "in crowd" to listen to bootlegs or limited prints. You're talking about going through search results at a computer, right? She's actually involving herself in the music creation process, in some small way.
- galkk 4mo ago
  Yes, and random song of 80s will be as shitty as random song of 2010s and 2020s.
- bigfishrunning 4mo ago
  Prompting a machine to generate random slop that sounds like other music isn't really involving yourself in the creation process. This person applied no taste or knowledge to the creation process, didn't learn anything. Just asked for a pattern matcher to give her something like what she already had. Nobody generating anything on Suno is showing any kind of creativity. It's somehow worse then regular plagiarism.
patates 4mo ago
> it's ok to be lazy, not a crime It's normal to hate AI being pushed down our throats, but it's a completely different thing when we call people names, who enjoy it on their own.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
- 1718627440 4mo ago
  You can also treat lazy not as an insult, but a behavioural description. Everyone likes to be lazy for sometime, and if you do not allow yourself lazy once in a while, you are likely to get burnout. In fact, that's precisely what was done here: "it's ok to be lazy".
  - patates 4mo ago
    > if you do not allow yourself lazy once in a while, you are likely to get burnout I'm not sure how using AI to generate songs will save anyone from the burnout of searching for songs, but what I understood from context is "intellectual laziness" and I see that as an insult. I'm not a native speaker though, so thanks for offering another perspective.
    - 1718627440 4mo ago
      This was a comment on the meaning of the world lazy, not an answer in the general context. The "intellectual laziness" you describe can be seen as a way to not spend attention and effort on things, you don't care for, in other words being rational and mindful. Not that I agree with this, there is tons of good music from the past centuries, which I already can't all hear in my lifetime, that I don't need to start consuming never ending output from greedy, soulless and evil corporations. I also don't like modern music that much. > I'm not a native speaker though Me neither.
galkk 4mo ago
I don’t want to copy paste my answer in another thread, but what if I want to listen to music about some lore? Some topic? Like this, made by a guy who clearly understands who to use ai? https://youtu.be/6YTjH_7QUT0?t=42 https://youtu.be/6YTjH_7QUT0?t=42 Ai is a great enabler for people who have ideas but don’t have chops.

alwa 4mo ago

It’s also OK to like what you like. She likes Suno jams. Great! I feel like this trope is strongest amongst musicians-feeling-underappreciated, but that the idea seeps in to all manners of creative work: that, because you’re rightfully proud of what you do, the audience is wronging you (or “lazy,” or “sad,” or “cheap,” or “tasteless”) by not appreciating it. It doesn’t make me feel a lot of sympathy.

Barbing 4mo ago
That might be OK if Suno had compensated everybody they needed to. I feel sympathy for people who made something that was reappropriated by those without strong ethics.
- NietTim 4mo ago
  Meanwhile you probably use Spotify or other streaming platforms without issue.
  - filoeleven 4mo ago
    Artists have to agree to be featured on Spotify, and agree to the royalty fees they receive. AI just pillaged recorded human history with zero compensation. Big difference.
textadventure 4mo ago
> It’s also OK to like what you like. She likes Suno jams. Great! People like what they like, sure. And if someone was particularly into the idea of machines making music, or even take some cynical enjoyment out of this on the full understanding of what it is they are doing. Sure, whatever. But someone acting like listening to AI generated music is their only choice due to their taste in music? Come on, that's a sci-fi nightmare right there. Not even going full-on ecologist here, but the resource expenditure alone is so out of whack for something only a single person will listen to. I don't even consider myself a musician, just a human being baffled at the total lack of humanity and how that lack of humanity is being normalized. Talk about sympathy.
- galkk 4mo ago
  Is it though? Do you have calculation how much one suno song does? I work with databases, and I sometimes wonder how much energy those full table scans of the world consume, comparing to ai.
- weberer 4mo ago
  What resource expenditure? Inference is dirt cheap, especially for a single person's prompt.
kibibu 4mo ago
It is, but also it's ok to silently judge people. If somebody told me "I choose to only read AI-generated books" I would also silently judge them.
- Cthulhu_ 4mo ago
  What about the long tail of romance novels, fanfiction, etc though? 50 shades was an outlier in that it was popular but it's absolute drivel, and there is a lot of that kind of low quality writing out there.
  - jeltz 4mo ago
    I judge people who read those, yes.
  - 1718627440 4mo ago
    Which is why it is also common to silently judge these readers.
  - latexr 4mo ago
    If we’re comparing bad quality to bad quality, human bad quality is infinitely more interesting. The fact someone wrote, directed, produced, acted in, etc, in something like Troll 2 or The Room is what makes those movies special. It’s the fact you can go “god damn, someone thought this was good” and be baffled at specific decisions they made. It’s the curiosity of “what was going on there”, “what drove those individuals to do this”, “how much of it were outside forces”, “who are these people”. It’s all the reasons which make it worth it to make a movie about a bad movie. With AI, even if you enjoy it as bad, as soon as you know it’s AI it loses all interest because there’s zero story behind it. The answer to all those questions becomes “a statistical algorithm made it that way”, and that’s objectively a boring answer.
  - watwut 4mo ago
    Imo, fanfiction crowd is overall much more actively creating then your average pop culture consumers. And their engagement with reading is also a fairly active. They are more likely to write themselves and even if dont, their reading tend to be and entry point for own fantasies. I feel like the only ones who have right to judge them are people who write full on books. And those seem to be aware this crowd is also simultaneously the last crowd of actual readers buying their books here and there. Romance readers got tired of being judged for decades and decades by people who dont read at all, people who read pure power fantasies or what not.

zdragnar 4mo ago

As someone with very specific tastes in music across several genres, yes, it's hard to find new bands making what I like. Every so often I'll find one, but it's pretty rare because- surprise!- the market for people with my tastes is really small so quality production targeting me is a bad career decision. There's not much AI music I like either, but there's at least one genre where it's really, really hard to find anything both new and authentically human, so AI scratches the itch occasionally.

Balinares 4mo ago
Possibly contributing to making it a worse career decision is not strategically optimal.

serf 4mo ago

easily liking any kind of music only on the merit that it is human generated seems lazy, too. similarly, firing up a music gen system rather than listening to a billy joel song for the 30,000th time seems less lazy. say what you want about AI systems, people that I used to see idly sit at a screen and ingest things all day purely are creating things they like now and sharing them. The thing is easier but the engagement seems greater for a lot of people. It's not as black and white as "oh you're lazy." -- and, by the way , that seems so wildly inappropriate to label an unknown third party as site-unseen -- dare I say that seems lazy?

habinero 4mo ago
> people that I used to see idly sit at a screen and ingest things all day purely are creating things they like now and sharing them Like what? People say this kind of stuff all the time and it's either not true or they're generating things with very questionable taste.
- WheatMillington 4mo ago
  Like the music being described literally in the thread you're responding to.
  - kode-targz 4mo ago
    definition of "very questionable taste"
    - WheatMillington 4mo ago
      How can you know that without even hearing it?
  - habinero 4mo ago
    Yeah, I would absolutely classify that as "questionable taste" lol.
vintermann 4mo ago

shevy-java 4mo ago

Well, it is kind of true though. I used to listen to bboy (breakdance) music; this was ok in the 1990s for the most part. Then things changed. The music today just ... sucks. I can't listen to it anymore. And bboying is now just a tricking contest, with a certain company abusing the dancers as advertisement-robots for them ... I also see that on youtube, with constant product marketing and product logo flashing. It's annoying.

jasonfarnon 4mo ago

"your friend just doesn't want to search for new music, and that is ok, it's ok to be lazy" Actually it seems to me like what the friend was doing required a lot more effort than "searching for new music". This isn't the 80s where you have to get in with the "in crowd" to listen to bootlegs or limited prints. You're talking about going through search results at a computer, right? She's actually involving herself in the music creation process, in some small way.

galkk 4mo ago
Yes, and random song of 80s will be as shitty as random song of 2010s and 2020s.
bigfishrunning 4mo ago
Prompting a machine to generate random slop that sounds like other music isn't really involving yourself in the creation process. This person applied no taste or knowledge to the creation process, didn't learn anything. Just asked for a pattern matcher to give her something like what she already had. Nobody generating anything on Suno is showing any kind of creativity. It's somehow worse then regular plagiarism.

patates 4mo ago

> it's ok to be lazy, not a crime It's normal to hate AI being pushed down our throats, but it's a completely different thing when we call people names, who enjoy it on their own.

deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
1718627440 4mo ago
You can also treat lazy not as an insult, but a behavioural description. Everyone likes to be lazy for sometime, and if you do not allow yourself lazy once in a while, you are likely to get burnout. In fact, that's precisely what was done here: "it's ok to be lazy".
- patates 4mo ago
  > if you do not allow yourself lazy once in a while, you are likely to get burnout I'm not sure how using AI to generate songs will save anyone from the burnout of searching for songs, but what I understood from context is "intellectual laziness" and I see that as an insult. I'm not a native speaker though, so thanks for offering another perspective.
  - 1718627440 4mo ago
    This was a comment on the meaning of the world lazy, not an answer in the general context. The "intellectual laziness" you describe can be seen as a way to not spend attention and effort on things, you don't care for, in other words being rational and mindful. Not that I agree with this, there is tons of good music from the past centuries, which I already can't all hear in my lifetime, that I don't need to start consuming never ending output from greedy, soulless and evil corporations. I also don't like modern music that much. > I'm not a native speaker though Me neither.

galkk 4mo ago

I don’t want to copy paste my answer in another thread, but what if I want to listen to music about some lore? Some topic? Like this, made by a guy who clearly understands who to use ai? https://youtu.be/6YTjH_7QUT0?t=42 https://youtu.be/6YTjH_7QUT0?t=42 Ai is a great enabler for people who have ideas but don’t have chops.