3 ms·

Cheaper to operate and mission-fit (debatable) is one thing, but the real question is: "Would this have happened without the US president's antics?"

by xethos 4mo ago

munk-a 4mo ago
Without the second election of Trump? It's likely. Canada's aircraft industry got majorly burned by the US in 2017 during his first administration and Biden didn't significantly reverse the impact in any way.
- 866-RON-0-FEZ 4mo ago
  > Canada's aircraft industry got majorly burned by the US in 2017 Canada's aircraft industry has been on life support since long before Trump took office, having been forced to partner up with China. The C-Series was divested to Airbus, the Dash 8 isn't produced anymore, and all Bombardier proper produces are biz-jets.
  - jgon 4mo ago
    Lol, why do you think the C series was divested to Airbus? https://www.reuters.com/article/business/trump-administration-sides-with-boeing-in-bombardier-dispute-idUSKBN1EE2L9/ https://www.reuters.com/article/business/trump-administratio...
  - munk-a 4mo ago
    I don't disagree that Bombardier commercial aircraft was struggling before that tariff - but it absolutely was the nail in the coffin. They actually ended up selling off the C-Series to Airbus for 1 CAD as a symbolic f-you to Boeing over the whole affair. The WTO ended up finding in Bombardier's favor but it came in too late to save the company from the financial damage. Whether the C-Series would have been profitable for Bombardier without the extreme heavy-handed US intervention is not particularly clear but the outlook already wasn't great - still, it's inarguable that Boeing leveraged lobbying to quicken Bombardier's demise.
  - 8note 4mo ago
    trump is now going after said biz-jets its straight economic warfare on behalf of Boeing
lysace 4mo ago
Obviously not. Canada would gladly have kept paying 2x market prices just to stay in the good graces of the US, with a presumption of 'free' defense in exchange for paying so much. This era is over. US defense companies now need to compete for real.
jleyank 4mo ago
Unfortunately, there is nothing in the US system (as far as I can see) that prevents Trump-like behaviour being the new standard. There were three supposedly independent, contentious branches of Government. One is inert (legislature), one enabled Trump (SCOTUS) and the third, of course, is Trump. I am unaware of any mechanism that can change things.
- vkou 4mo ago
  There is also the fourth - the press, which is either actively cheerleading him, or sanewashing every insane thing be does, or walks an eggshells around him.
- ianm218 4mo ago
  Trump-like behavior isn't the inevitable result of the US System though. We could've had another 20 presidents in a row who didn't go and break the norm of maintaining global alliances and not threatening to invade our neighbors and closest allies constantly. So it's relevant to ask if this would still be happening without Trumps antics, even isolationists like JD Vance wouldn't force our allies hands like this.
  - jleyank 4mo ago
    Trump would have done nothing if he wasn’t aided and enabled by the rest of the government. There’s no indication this was a one off.
    - kshacker 4mo ago
      Sure, but look at the alternative. Oppose him and he will support your primary opponent, like it happened yesterday in Texas. The problem is his pied piper like hold on the populace which happened because the parties did not actually try to solve the problems. Sure they did solve some, but then they closed their eyes to the evils their group demanded - sanctuary cities on one side, and "right to life" on the other side.
      - 4mo ago
poiuyt098 4mo ago
yes. in 2015 trudeau ran a campaign on cancelling the F35 purchase https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II_Canadian_procurement?useskin=vector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning...

Cheaper to operate and mission-fit (debatable) is one thing, but the real question is: "Would this have happened without the US president's antics?"

by xethos 4mo ago

Cheaper to operate and mission-fit (debatable) is one thing, but the real question is: "Would this have happened without the US president's antics?"

munk-a 4mo ago

Without the second election of Trump? It's likely. Canada's aircraft industry got majorly burned by the US in 2017 during his first administration and Biden didn't significantly reverse the impact in any way.

866-RON-0-FEZ 4mo ago
> Canada's aircraft industry got majorly burned by the US in 2017 Canada's aircraft industry has been on life support since long before Trump took office, having been forced to partner up with China. The C-Series was divested to Airbus, the Dash 8 isn't produced anymore, and all Bombardier proper produces are biz-jets.
- jgon 4mo ago
  Lol, why do you think the C series was divested to Airbus? https://www.reuters.com/article/business/trump-administration-sides-with-boeing-in-bombardier-dispute-idUSKBN1EE2L9/ https://www.reuters.com/article/business/trump-administratio...
- munk-a 4mo ago
  I don't disagree that Bombardier commercial aircraft was struggling before that tariff - but it absolutely was the nail in the coffin. They actually ended up selling off the C-Series to Airbus for 1 CAD as a symbolic f-you to Boeing over the whole affair. The WTO ended up finding in Bombardier's favor but it came in too late to save the company from the financial damage. Whether the C-Series would have been profitable for Bombardier without the extreme heavy-handed US intervention is not particularly clear but the outlook already wasn't great - still, it's inarguable that Boeing leveraged lobbying to quicken Bombardier's demise.
- 8note 4mo ago
  trump is now going after said biz-jets its straight economic warfare on behalf of Boeing

lysace 4mo ago

Obviously not. Canada would gladly have kept paying 2x market prices just to stay in the good graces of the US, with a presumption of 'free' defense in exchange for paying so much. This era is over. US defense companies now need to compete for real.

jleyank 4mo ago

Unfortunately, there is nothing in the US system (as far as I can see) that prevents Trump-like behaviour being the new standard. There were three supposedly independent, contentious branches of Government. One is inert (legislature), one enabled Trump (SCOTUS) and the third, of course, is Trump. I am unaware of any mechanism that can change things.

vkou 4mo ago
There is also the fourth - the press, which is either actively cheerleading him, or sanewashing every insane thing be does, or walks an eggshells around him.
ianm218 4mo ago
Trump-like behavior isn't the inevitable result of the US System though. We could've had another 20 presidents in a row who didn't go and break the norm of maintaining global alliances and not threatening to invade our neighbors and closest allies constantly. So it's relevant to ask if this would still be happening without Trumps antics, even isolationists like JD Vance wouldn't force our allies hands like this.
- jleyank 4mo ago
  Trump would have done nothing if he wasn’t aided and enabled by the rest of the government. There’s no indication this was a one off.
  - kshacker 4mo ago
    Sure, but look at the alternative. Oppose him and he will support your primary opponent, like it happened yesterday in Texas. The problem is his pied piper like hold on the populace which happened because the parties did not actually try to solve the problems. Sure they did solve some, but then they closed their eyes to the evils their group demanded - sanctuary cities on one side, and "right to life" on the other side.
    - 4mo ago

poiuyt098 4mo ago

yes. in 2015 trudeau ran a campaign on cancelling the F35 purchase https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II_Canadian_procurement?useskin=vector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning...