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> We could drive energy prices down to nothing. Not when you're paying people to coat their properties in solar panels. As you noted, that would cost plenty.
by WalterBright 5mo ago
> We could drive energy prices down to nothing.
Not when you're paying people to coat their properties in solar panels. As you noted, that would cost plenty.
Solar panels also degrade over time. By the time the "free" electricity has paid for the installation, you'll need to replace it.
- amanaplanacanal 5mo agoHow often do you think solar panels need to be replaced?
- fc417fc802 5mo agoApproximately 3 times during the course of your life assuming you receive them when you're born and live for 100 years. They're roughly equivalent to wood siding or an asphalt shingle roof.
- WalterBright 5mo agoAn asphalt shingle roof lasts about 20 years, and that's for the "40 year" premium shingles. Source: my experience Roofers also tend to regularly close their businesses and open under a new name, so they don't have to honor any longevity warranties.
- fc417fc802 5mo agoIf we accept what you say then the roof would need to be replaced 4 times instead of 3. Surely you agree that the situation is broadly similar? Worrying about the longevity of properly installed solar is quite silly.
- WalterBright 5mo ago> silly 30 years ago was 1996. No 30 year panels have lasted anywhere near 30 years yet.
- fc417fc802 5mo agoAnd your point is? How long would you say a properly installed panel from 2000 made it in practice? How long would the modern equivalent installed in 2025 be expected to make it? And how many replacement events does each of those make for over the course of your life? Do you contest my earlier claim that solar is roughly equivalent to wood siding or an asphalt shingle roof?
- WalterBright 5mo ago> And your point is? Using 30 years as a lifetime for solar panels is risky as there are no solar panels running for 30 years, not even close. Never mind the lifetime of the power wall battery and the inverters. I bought a 40 year "premium" asphalt roof. It barely made it to 20. A regular asphalt roof, perhaps 10 years. Now I have a metal roof.
- djanogo 5mo ago30 year roof will get replaced the same year if it gets hit by hail in southern states.
- Timon3 5mo ago> Using 30 years as a lifetime for solar panels is risky as there are no solar panels running for 30 years, not even close. Are you sure about that? https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/30-year-old-solar-panels-still-going-strong/4022052.article https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/30-year-old-solar-panels... All the results I've seen indicate that solar panels will keep producing electricity long after those 30 years, just at a reduced rate (but seemingly still >50%).
- WalterBright 5mo agoHow is generating only half the power going to work out?
- 5mo ago
- AndrewDucker 5mo agoPayback time in Scotland is 6-ish years. Same seems to be true in Massachusetts. Solar Panels have a lifespan of around 25 years. Inverters may need to be replaced sooner than that, but still last at least a decade. So it pays for itself 3-4 times over.
- hunterpayne 5mo agoThere is no way that is true unless those solar panels are very subsidized. The energy needed to make a PV is 2x what that panel would harvest over its entire lifetime in Scotland for example. Scotland is a terrible place for PV. The numbers you give are probably accurate for central Mexico though. Also, the mean lifetime of a PV panel is 20 years.
- AndrewDucker 5mo agoYour information appears to be 20 years out of date.
- lisplist 5mo agoWe spend billions every year in gas subsidies. We spend billions every year in food subsidies. For energy independence and the carbon reduction alone, this is a worthwhile investment even if the upfront costs are substantial.
- g8oz 5mo ago>>By the time the "free" electricity has paid for the installation, you'll need to replace it. You are going to have to back this up with credible citations. Otherwise it sounds like skepticism from 2008.
- WalterBright 5mo agoYou're right, I ran the numbers years ago. I remain as skeptical as I am for roofing lifetime claims.
- 1attice 5mo agoImpressive commitment to stale inference from dated data.
- WalterBright 5mo ago30 year solar panels haven't even passed 20 years yet.
- g8oz 5mo agoPayback is considerably less than 20 years in most locations.
- WalterBright 5mo agoAre those subsidized costs?
- nickpp 5mo agoThere are other reasons though. Whole house backup is a game changer. Battery always holding about twice our daily usage (or thrice a reduced, emergency usage) means I don’t really care about blackouts or midnight electrical company maintenance power cuts. Direct to EV DC charging means I don’t buy gas, either. Planning for induction range and heat pump someday too. Not paying for energy about 3/4 of the year feels awesome. Panels are cheap. Cheap to replace too. The newer ones have even better efficiency. My whole (unsubsidized) sistem cost around $15k here in Eastern Europe and amortization was never a consideration. Money well spent. Finally, giving the finger to another crappy government-granted monopoly and proving once again that there is no such thing as a “natural” monopoly: priceless.