5 ms·
If "we will opt everyone in because otherwise we won't get enough data because we know users won't opt in" is your business model, maybe it's time for a rethink
by mark242 4mo ago
If "we will opt everyone in because otherwise we won't get enough data because we know users won't opt in" is your business model, maybe it's time for a rethink.
- rottencupcakes 4mo agoDefaults matter. Opt-in vs opt-out organ donorship has a large impact. Most people on any web app won’t stray from the defaults.
- philipwhiuk 4mo agoAgain, this is because it's uninformed. Consent matters.
- cjonas 4mo agoyea except one is a "dark pattern" to exploit customers for corporate profit while the other is to benefit society.
- mmh0000 4mo agoWhich we probably need to consider changing now that some truly bizarre and evil shit is being done on donor organs: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48212992 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48212992
- abustamam 4mo agoOff topic but I'm curious what's evil about that article. Bizarre, sure, but evil? They took a brain (an organ) from a dead person who had previously given consent to use their organs for that purpose.
- mmh0000 4mo agoI think most people, and definitely myself, when they sign up to be an organ donor, they think of the liver, kidney, and heart. Things that will help other people. Not the brain, the center of conscience, being kept in some sort of horror-movie half-alive state. I do not think we understand consciousness enough to rule out what those brains are experiencing.
- cj 4mo ago> half-alive state The brain can't be "half-alive" after you've died.
- wtetzner 4mo ago> I do not think we understand consciousness enough to rule out what those brains are experiencing.
- cj 4mo agoThe parent edited their comment, wasn’t there when I replied. But if you believe your organs don’t die when you die, then don’t donate your organs?
- mmh0000 4mo agoUm... I, 220% disagree with that statement. I did edit to fix a spelling mistake, I did not add/remove content... I wish HN showed the edit history >:(
- mmh0000 4mo ago> if you believe your organs don’t die when you die, then don’t donate your organs? Because "I" don't know what "I" am. Am I a brain? Am I a soul? Am I the universe? I have no idea. Science currently has no idea. Religion is unprovable. I want to donate my organs. If my death can bring life to others, it would be a truly amazing deed I could do. On the other hand, if I am just a brain, I do not want to be locked into some sort of drugged, half-conscious state where I can't scream.
- abustamam 4mo agoThat's fair. Personally I wouldn't mind, but when you put it that way it makes sense people would be wary. Kind of reminds me of the series Pantheon, which is amazing but also kinda disturbing for similar reasons.
- hyperbovine 4mo agoI sincerely hope this never comes to pass, but you or your loved ones may someday find themselves in the position of wishing more people were opted in for organ donation. The same cannot be said for some random corporation training AI models off your data to make a buck or two.
- codersfocus 4mo agoI think it might be better to get rid of the organ *donation* system entirely. Organ transplant surgery costs hundreds of thousands of dollars, yet donors get zilch, which is completely unfair when everyone else in the value chain gets paid. If instead it was "allow my organs to be sold for my estate" I think the supply of organs would greatly increase, which would be win/win.
- micromacrofoot 4mo agothere are a number of problems with people selling their organs for profit, it's a perverse incentive — the people in the chain who otherwise get paid don't get paid for the organs, they get paid for the labor of doing their jobs
- shafyy 4mo ago[flagged]
- tomhow 4mo agoIf you keep commenting like this, we'll have to ban you. We've asked you before, not to do this, and you've been using HN long enough to know that this is unacceptable. If you keep it up, we'll have to assume that you want to be banned. Please remind yourself of the guidelines and make an effort to observe them if you want to participate here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- tredre3 4mo agoOrgan donation saves lives at no cost to you (because at this point you're dead). It's unclear if my private data being used for training has a cost to me, but I'm giving posthog money already. They shouldn't double dip.
- freshnode 4mo agoIt's frustrating as we literally just moved to it. Back to Mixpanel?
- abustamam 4mo agoI'd recommend at least doing a short spike to see if you can build your own in some way. We did that for the purpose of experimentation and now we've built our own metrics platform that we completely own.
- micromacrofoot 4mo agothis is the business model of all companies training AI, if they had to get permission we wouldn't have frontier LLMs at all
- abustamam 4mo agoSo it's OK to do stuff without permission as long as we get something that makes a lot of people a lot of money?
- ajcoll5 4mo ago*"that makes a select few rich people a lot more money?"
- skupig 4mo agoIt's not OK, but it's a fact.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- micromacrofoot 4mo agohas it not always been this way?
- abustamam 4mo agoTwo things can be true. A shitty thing can prevail for a long time and still be shitty.
- micromacrofoot 4mo agoI think it's prevailed for all of human history in this case, so while shitty it appears to be a feature
- abustamam 4mo ago