6 ms·

My grandfather emigrated from Vilnius (was polish at the time) to the USA as a teenager and managed to find a church that did their mass in Latin, and still doe

My grandfather emigrated from Vilnius (was polish at the time) to the USA as a teenager and managed to find a church that did their mass in Latin, and still does to this day. I assume he understood it but I'm not sure - he was well-educated and spoke a few languages.

bombcar 5mo ago
The church Latin used in “the Latin Mass” is relatively simple and pretty easy to learn; and it’s very rare to find one that does the readings and homily in Latin; most of those are in English (or the local language) even at an FSSP parish. Of course if it’s “really” done in the ancient way then it’s done at such a high speed that you need five or six Jesuits and advanced recording equipment to even figure out what is being said. ;)
- kjs3 5mo ago
  I recall some of the Orthodox denominations still do mass in Latin. I visited an Antiochian Orthodox Church for a class where this was the case. I think (it has been a long while) the key phrase you'd look for is 'Western Rite'.
  - bombcar 5mo ago
    Latin (and other "old" languages) can still be found in various ways and places, though that starts to get deep into it, as the "New Catholic Mass" can be said in any language, one of which is Latin.
  - somenameforme 5mo ago
    Some Eastern Orthodox use (for all dialogue, they do celebrate mass) a language that's now only referred to as Church Slavonic. [1] Though going down this tangent I can't help but think of that Emo Phillips skit on religion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANNX_XiuA78 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANNX_XiuA78 [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Slavonic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Slavonic
  - zdragnar 5mo ago
    Antiochian (eastern rite) and Assyrian Orthodox both do at least some of their masses in Aramaic, which can be interesting, though there may be a mix of others as well (note that Assyrian is fully independent, whereas Antiochian is in full communion with the broader Easter Orthodox church). "Western Rite" would be those that adopted Latin or local western languages and traditions- think organs or other musical instruments, unleavened bread, crossing yourself from left to right, etc. The Catholic and Protestant churches are like this, along with a relatively small number of Orthodox churches. "Eastern Rite" are those that follow the Eastern Orthodox traditions, chanting the divine liturgies in older languages, no musical instrumentation, leavened bread, crossing yourself from right to left, etc.
- celebril 5mo ago
  [dead]
- baud147258 5mo ago
  While I've never been to a mass with the homily in Latin, I've had a few with the readings in Latin (including Monday's mass two days ago), which always annoys me a little because it's immediately followed by the translation in the local language. Personally I prefer the Latin mass, but one change I'd like to see would be for all the texts for that day to be read in the local language, not just the Epistle and Gospel (among other changes).
elch 5mo ago
Latin was the standard language of the Roman-Catholic Mass until the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s. The current form of the Mass in national languages was formalized in 1970.
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
tecleandor 5mo ago
Giving the mass in Latin wasn't (generally) done because people understood Latin, but because of a traditionalist sense. The Second Vatican Council stated (among other things) that the mass could be done in other languages apart from Latin, and that it was a good thing to use local languages, so people could understand it better. After that Council some excisions appeared, like the Society of Saint Pius X, that reclaimed the old ways of giving mass, in Latin, (and, IIRC, with the deacon giving his back to the people, not looking at them), and said there was "a moral and theological crisis in the Catholic Church". Or people like the Palmarian Catholic Church in Spain, saying they have the authentic Pope, and the one in Rome is an Antipope. They were a scam for pulling money from their believers, and their "Pope" kept spending money on booze and expensive cars. They still exist.
- alexdbird 5mo ago
  You can't deny it, mass is much more stylish in Latin ;)
  - celebril 5mo ago
    It's only stylish because of the imagined qualities of prestige vested in a language you're not fluent in. It's the same as how you get English-speaking people realising how cringe-inducing anime dialogue really is when they hear it in English instead of Japanese, and then championing "the only REAL way of consuming anime is in Japanese dub!", not realising the Japanese used in that is also extremely cringey. People finding the mass somehow less holy and sacramental when celebrated in their native tongue need to reflect on their own perspectives on what makes something holy.
    - sdsd 5mo ago
      No, the Tridentine (Latin mass) has many other qualities aside from just being in Latin that make it pretty spectacular compared to the Novus Ordo (post Vatican II) mass. You should find a church that does it near you, it's really incredible and quite unlike what you're used to if you've only ever experienced the modern mass. I'm not Catholic but everyone should attend Latin mass at least once just as an artistic experience.
1718627440 5mo ago
Latin is a very regular language and has tons of ties to words in other modern languages. I can't speak Latin, but I'm able to follow the mass and orations just fine. It's really not too difficult when you hear it so often, and the amount of words is limited to the same things, that are then the same in other Romance languages.

bombcar 5mo ago

The church Latin used in “the Latin Mass” is relatively simple and pretty easy to learn; and it’s very rare to find one that does the readings and homily in Latin; most of those are in English (or the local language) even at an FSSP parish. Of course if it’s “really” done in the ancient way then it’s done at such a high speed that you need five or six Jesuits and advanced recording equipment to even figure out what is being said. ;)

kjs3 5mo ago
I recall some of the Orthodox denominations still do mass in Latin. I visited an Antiochian Orthodox Church for a class where this was the case. I think (it has been a long while) the key phrase you'd look for is 'Western Rite'.
- bombcar 5mo ago
  Latin (and other "old" languages) can still be found in various ways and places, though that starts to get deep into it, as the "New Catholic Mass" can be said in any language, one of which is Latin.
- somenameforme 5mo ago
  Some Eastern Orthodox use (for all dialogue, they do celebrate mass) a language that's now only referred to as Church Slavonic. [1] Though going down this tangent I can't help but think of that Emo Phillips skit on religion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANNX_XiuA78 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANNX_XiuA78 [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Slavonic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Slavonic
- zdragnar 5mo ago
  Antiochian (eastern rite) and Assyrian Orthodox both do at least some of their masses in Aramaic, which can be interesting, though there may be a mix of others as well (note that Assyrian is fully independent, whereas Antiochian is in full communion with the broader Easter Orthodox church). "Western Rite" would be those that adopted Latin or local western languages and traditions- think organs or other musical instruments, unleavened bread, crossing yourself from left to right, etc. The Catholic and Protestant churches are like this, along with a relatively small number of Orthodox churches. "Eastern Rite" are those that follow the Eastern Orthodox traditions, chanting the divine liturgies in older languages, no musical instrumentation, leavened bread, crossing yourself from right to left, etc.
celebril 5mo ago
[dead]
baud147258 5mo ago
While I've never been to a mass with the homily in Latin, I've had a few with the readings in Latin (including Monday's mass two days ago), which always annoys me a little because it's immediately followed by the translation in the local language. Personally I prefer the Latin mass, but one change I'd like to see would be for all the texts for that day to be read in the local language, not just the Epistle and Gospel (among other changes).

elch 5mo ago

Latin was the standard language of the Roman-Catholic Mass until the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s. The current form of the Mass in national languages was formalized in 1970.

deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]

tecleandor 5mo ago

Giving the mass in Latin wasn't (generally) done because people understood Latin, but because of a traditionalist sense. The Second Vatican Council stated (among other things) that the mass could be done in other languages apart from Latin, and that it was a good thing to use local languages, so people could understand it better. After that Council some excisions appeared, like the Society of Saint Pius X, that reclaimed the old ways of giving mass, in Latin, (and, IIRC, with the deacon giving his back to the people, not looking at them), and said there was "a moral and theological crisis in the Catholic Church". Or people like the Palmarian Catholic Church in Spain, saying they have the authentic Pope, and the one in Rome is an Antipope. They were a scam for pulling money from their believers, and their "Pope" kept spending money on booze and expensive cars. They still exist.

alexdbird 5mo ago
You can't deny it, mass is much more stylish in Latin ;)
- celebril 5mo ago
  It's only stylish because of the imagined qualities of prestige vested in a language you're not fluent in. It's the same as how you get English-speaking people realising how cringe-inducing anime dialogue really is when they hear it in English instead of Japanese, and then championing "the only REAL way of consuming anime is in Japanese dub!", not realising the Japanese used in that is also extremely cringey. People finding the mass somehow less holy and sacramental when celebrated in their native tongue need to reflect on their own perspectives on what makes something holy.
  - sdsd 5mo ago
    No, the Tridentine (Latin mass) has many other qualities aside from just being in Latin that make it pretty spectacular compared to the Novus Ordo (post Vatican II) mass. You should find a church that does it near you, it's really incredible and quite unlike what you're used to if you've only ever experienced the modern mass. I'm not Catholic but everyone should attend Latin mass at least once just as an artistic experience.

1718627440 5mo ago

Latin is a very regular language and has tons of ties to words in other modern languages. I can't speak Latin, but I'm able to follow the mass and orations just fine. It's really not too difficult when you hear it so often, and the amount of words is limited to the same things, that are then the same in other Romance languages.