4 ms·

behaving like a human is not the problem. behaving unpredictably is. not doing what i expect, or rather not being able to define what i can expect is what's bot

by em-bee 5mo ago

behaving like a human is not the problem. behaving unpredictably is. not doing what i expect, or rather not being able to define what i can expect is what's bothering me. but the real kicker is: getting frustrated creates stress, that's unhealthy and makes for a hostile work environment. as much as i sympathize with the idea that AI tools can be more helpful than they cause pain, i am simply not interested in working in a hostile painful work environment. my health and my dignity are not up for negotiation. even if that costs me a lot of job opportunities. that's also why i am not working with windows. that too costs me a lot of job opportunities. but again, i'd rather keep my dignity and my sanity.

mrweasel 5mo ago
> that's also why i am not working with windows Oh good, so it's not just me. Windows is weird, my hand starts cramping up and I start getting angry pretty quickly when I use it. For LLMs, I just can't use them, they aren't there yet for me. What I need is for an LLMs to say "stop, you're clearly doing something wrong, talk me through what it is you want to do". The current generation of LLMs seems designed to piss me off.
- em-bee 5mo ago
  my hand starts cramping up and I start getting angry pretty quickly when I use it it's been a while (fortunately) but yes, same. for me it's this feeling of helplessness. like this behavior is not a bug but an intentional design flaw that won't ever get fixed. like this quote: when something goes wrong in windows i bang my head against the wall and give up. when something goes wrong in linux i bang my head against the wall and go look at the code. (paraphrased from memory, i could not find the source) (edit: actually the original quote is a bit different than from how i remembered it: https://www.junauza.com/2008/01/top-50-linux-quotes-of-all-time.html https://www.junauza.com/2008/01/top-50-linux-quotes-of-all-t... (search for nr 10)) The current generation of LLMs i feel exactly as you say. and maybe in the future LLMs will improve. it is also clear that some people have different levels of tolerance for this. if someone can tolerate the current state and work with it, good for them. i simply don't have much of any tolerance for that at all.
streetfighter64 5mo ago
Incredibly privileged take to claim that using Windows is somehow beneath your "dignity". Do you have any idea at all of the kinds of jobs people are doing in the real world? Imagine the daycare worker taking care of your kids or the truck driver bringing your food saying "getting frustrated creates stress, that's unhealthy and makes for a hostile work environment".
- antonvs 5mo ago
  I didn't see them say anything about dignity. They said using Windows makes them angry, which is understandable. That speaks to a poor user experience design. Framing it as a privilege issue is blaming the victim.
  - streetfighter64 5mo ago
    "The victim" of using a certain operating system? Please. Being lucky enough to work in a comfortable air-conditioned office, AND having the luxury of declining jobs sorely because the operating system makes you angry, is the height of privilege. Stop feeling sorry for yourselves and realize how good you have it. > I didn't see them say anything about dignity. The word dignity was used twice in the comment I replied to...
    - ryandrake 5mo ago
      I wouldn’t put it in terms of dignity or victimhood, but Windows definitely feels weird and foreign if you are dumped into it after using Macs and Linux and bash for 20 years. I had to help someone do a little maintenance on a Windows system the other day and I realized that I had basically forgotten how to do anything on it. I couldn’t even remember how to delete a directory tree. Online tutorials recommended to do some things in “Powershell” whatever the hell that is, and that was even more bizarre. I’ve never felt more useless in front of a computer than I did just trying to remove and install some software from the Windows command line.
    - Wicher 5mo ago
      > "The victim" of using a certain operating system? Please. Perhaps "victim" in the sense of not having much choice/agency? Neither in the choice of operating system (due to sparsely restrained anticompetitive behaviour of incumbents over decades) nor in how they're treated (entrapped) by the operating systems. The OSes are really POS (point of sale) terminals for media and cloud services. Thus consider most operating system users aren't really users. They're "usees", they're being used. One could surmise that the Microsoft/Apple/Google shareholders are the real users of the operating systems. If you'd left the commercial OS world in the Win2K/OSX 10.4 era for, say, Gentoo Linux, and would come back now to look over someone's shoulder while they're using (or rather, being used by) their operating systems, you could be forgiven for coming away with the impression that some kind of authority inversion has taken place in the meantime.
21asdffdsa12 5mo ago
But they behave predictable- if you think of it not as a conversation, but any conversation you ever saw on the internet, on all possible worlds. Every stackoverflow post, every github issue. And your reply, your tone, picks between this many worlds. If you become the master, it becomes the pupil, if you become the pupil, it attempts to scholar you. You can see it in the tone it takes, where you are in this canyon system. So, your goal is to bring the conversation to the language of the pros, who regularly war with reason and language, over topics that determinate who gets to eat or not. Academia prompts for the win..
Andrex 5mo ago
> behaving like a human is not the problem. behaving unpredictably is. Not sure you can have one without the other.
- em-bee 5mo ago
  humans are way more predictable than AI. not predictable in the mathematical sense, but in the trust sense, that when i ask a human to do something, they will do it in the way i taught them. and if they don't, i can correct them and they will learn and adapt. it's not perfect, but there is progress. even if they do something different from what i want, they will keep doing it that way until they learn a different way. AI is entirely random in the ways it goes wrong. so when i say a human is predictable, i mean that a human will do their best to follow instructions, and they will generally not repeat mistakes. a human that refuses to listen, and doesn't learn will be fired for being unsuitable for the work i expect them to do. in that sense i tried working with AI and i decided to fire them because they don't meet my expectations.

by em-bee 5mo ago

mrweasel 5mo ago

> that's also why i am not working with windows Oh good, so it's not just me. Windows is weird, my hand starts cramping up and I start getting angry pretty quickly when I use it. For LLMs, I just can't use them, they aren't there yet for me. What I need is for an LLMs to say "stop, you're clearly doing something wrong, talk me through what it is you want to do". The current generation of LLMs seems designed to piss me off.

em-bee 5mo ago
my hand starts cramping up and I start getting angry pretty quickly when I use it it's been a while (fortunately) but yes, same. for me it's this feeling of helplessness. like this behavior is not a bug but an intentional design flaw that won't ever get fixed. like this quote: when something goes wrong in windows i bang my head against the wall and give up. when something goes wrong in linux i bang my head against the wall and go look at the code. (paraphrased from memory, i could not find the source) (edit: actually the original quote is a bit different than from how i remembered it: https://www.junauza.com/2008/01/top-50-linux-quotes-of-all-time.html https://www.junauza.com/2008/01/top-50-linux-quotes-of-all-t... (search for nr 10)) The current generation of LLMs i feel exactly as you say. and maybe in the future LLMs will improve. it is also clear that some people have different levels of tolerance for this. if someone can tolerate the current state and work with it, good for them. i simply don't have much of any tolerance for that at all.

streetfighter64 5mo ago

Incredibly privileged take to claim that using Windows is somehow beneath your "dignity". Do you have any idea at all of the kinds of jobs people are doing in the real world? Imagine the daycare worker taking care of your kids or the truck driver bringing your food saying "getting frustrated creates stress, that's unhealthy and makes for a hostile work environment".

antonvs 5mo ago
I didn't see them say anything about dignity. They said using Windows makes them angry, which is understandable. That speaks to a poor user experience design. Framing it as a privilege issue is blaming the victim.
- streetfighter64 5mo ago
  "The victim" of using a certain operating system? Please. Being lucky enough to work in a comfortable air-conditioned office, AND having the luxury of declining jobs sorely because the operating system makes you angry, is the height of privilege. Stop feeling sorry for yourselves and realize how good you have it. > I didn't see them say anything about dignity. The word dignity was used twice in the comment I replied to...
  - ryandrake 5mo ago
    I wouldn’t put it in terms of dignity or victimhood, but Windows definitely feels weird and foreign if you are dumped into it after using Macs and Linux and bash for 20 years. I had to help someone do a little maintenance on a Windows system the other day and I realized that I had basically forgotten how to do anything on it. I couldn’t even remember how to delete a directory tree. Online tutorials recommended to do some things in “Powershell” whatever the hell that is, and that was even more bizarre. I’ve never felt more useless in front of a computer than I did just trying to remove and install some software from the Windows command line.
  - Wicher 5mo ago
    > "The victim" of using a certain operating system? Please. Perhaps "victim" in the sense of not having much choice/agency? Neither in the choice of operating system (due to sparsely restrained anticompetitive behaviour of incumbents over decades) nor in how they're treated (entrapped) by the operating systems. The OSes are really POS (point of sale) terminals for media and cloud services. Thus consider most operating system users aren't really users. They're "usees", they're being used. One could surmise that the Microsoft/Apple/Google shareholders are the real users of the operating systems. If you'd left the commercial OS world in the Win2K/OSX 10.4 era for, say, Gentoo Linux, and would come back now to look over someone's shoulder while they're using (or rather, being used by) their operating systems, you could be forgiven for coming away with the impression that some kind of authority inversion has taken place in the meantime.

21asdffdsa12 5mo ago

But they behave predictable- if you think of it not as a conversation, but any conversation you ever saw on the internet, on all possible worlds. Every stackoverflow post, every github issue. And your reply, your tone, picks between this many worlds. If you become the master, it becomes the pupil, if you become the pupil, it attempts to scholar you. You can see it in the tone it takes, where you are in this canyon system. So, your goal is to bring the conversation to the language of the pros, who regularly war with reason and language, over topics that determinate who gets to eat or not. Academia prompts for the win..

Andrex 5mo ago

> behaving like a human is not the problem. behaving unpredictably is. Not sure you can have one without the other.

em-bee 5mo ago
humans are way more predictable than AI. not predictable in the mathematical sense, but in the trust sense, that when i ask a human to do something, they will do it in the way i taught them. and if they don't, i can correct them and they will learn and adapt. it's not perfect, but there is progress. even if they do something different from what i want, they will keep doing it that way until they learn a different way. AI is entirely random in the ways it goes wrong. so when i say a human is predictable, i mean that a human will do their best to follow instructions, and they will generally not repeat mistakes. a human that refuses to listen, and doesn't learn will be fired for being unsuitable for the work i expect them to do. in that sense i tried working with AI and i decided to fire them because they don't meet my expectations.