3 ms·

Well, you can't. Like no past generation could stop their kids.

by grim_io 5mo ago

dylan604 5mo ago
Just like no past generation had so much information so readily available. One quick quip can always be rebutted by another quick quip, but it doesn't really move the conversation along in any meaningful manner.
JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
> no past generation could stop their kids Past generations absolutely protected their kids from cigarettes and alcohol. A gate doesn’t have to be 100% effective to have net benefits.
- kelseyfrog 5mo ago
  If one kid is able to bypass the system it means it's zero percent effective. Same thing with alcohol, and cigarettes. Especially if it means I have to show my ID to buy those things.
  - smelendez 5mo ago
    It feels more complicated. Some kids getting access to booze here and there with planning and coordination is different from kids walking into a liquor store or bar whenever they want.
    - kelseyfrog 5mo ago
      It's literally all or nothing[1]. Either measures are 100 percent effective or they are completely broken and should not exist. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_(psychology)
      - dijksterhuis 5mo ago
        are you… are you /s-ing right now? it’s unclear to me whether you’re being satirical/sarcastic or not and i want to check before i point out a thing.
      - ziml77 5mo ago
        Shit thanks for pointing that out. My door lock isn't 100% effective at stopping thieves, so I guess I can get rid of that annoying thing. Will be nice to never worry about being locked out again!
      - yard2010 5mo ago
        There is never a simple solution to a complex problem, although there are many complex solutions to simple problems.
  - deleted 5mo ago
    [deleted]
  - JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
    > If one kid is able to bypass the system it means it's zero percent effective No. Like, obviously no. That’s not how effectiveness is ever measured.
  - ImJamal 5mo ago
    Guess we should get rid of murder and rape laws, right?
- grim_io 5mo ago
  I'm not saying parents shouldn't try. But like your examples, it's not guaranteed to work. Install a DNS filter. Firefox circumvented that? Smart kid :) Censorship circumvention might be a good skill to have in the near future.
- ImJamal 5mo ago
  Well in the past there were laws banning the selling of cigarettes and alcohol to minors. Selling alcohol to a minor can cause you to lose your liquor license. With much of the online content being free and not involving a physical product it has become significantly harder for a parent to protect their children.
- Auracle 5mo ago
  > Past generations absolutely protected their kids from cigarettes and alcohol. I'm sorry, but what? Cigarettes, sure. Alcohol? Binge drinking was absolutely rampant at my school, and I don't think I'm alone. Don't get me wrong, some parents just buried their heads in the sand, but unless you're giving them a breathalyzer when they get home and severely punishing them all the time it's pretty hard to prevent.
- saghm 5mo ago
  Yes, but when I go to the grocery store, U don't buy alcohol or cigarettes (because I don't drink or smoke), and no one cards me. Even if I never accessed a single site like the ones being described, and despite there being no kids who have access to my devices because I don't have any children, according to these laws every OS I install is required to force me to provide proof of my age. That's a huge escalation over any of those other checks, and I'd be similarly against any check that required anyone to present id to literally enter a store that happens to sell alcohol or cigarettes. (Yes, you might get carded before you can go into a bar or a club, but we're talking about every possible device that can connect to the internet here; that's a lot closer to the grocery store than a bar or club terms of how much of a staple this is for most people's daily lives at this point. Cutting off my ability to access to my bank account, contact doctor, or pay my bills should not be something that should require additional steps because my devices which no children ever used could theoretically be used for a child to try to watch porn).
  - JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
    > but we're talking about every possible device that can connect to the internet here I agree these proposals are garbage. But if everyone who can credibly say that is busy trying to block any age gating, this is what we’re going to get.
    - saghm 5mo ago
      > But if everyone who can credibly say that is busy trying to block any age gating, this is what we’re going to get. I'm certainly not busy trying to block a bunch of hypothetical policies that no one has proposed when there are garbage ones that are literally getting pushed right now. It sounds more like too many of the people who recognize the harm of this policy are too busy trying to claim that the burden for coming up with a non-garbage policy should be on the people who fundamentally disagree with that framing.
      - JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
        > the burden for coming up with a non-garbage policy should be on the people who fundamentally disagree with that framing Things a good way to put it. Yes. Regardless of whether you disagree with that framing, that is the frame that’s been set and is being run with. So you can make theoretical arguments against the framing. Or practical arguments against the policies within the frame.
subscribed 5mo ago
With all due respect.... this younger generation (zoomers and "alpha") is on average utterly clueless when it comes to technology. Fluent in pod tide trends and latest sticker packs, but utterly unable to comprehend anything not working, be it wifi, proxy, dns, their phone's mobile connection. Unable to even ask the question "_why_ is something not working" or "what can I possibly do with this arcane message obscuring my $app's screen". I know that's a quite broad generalisation but I see this in my kids' school across basically all their peers, and I can observe it online. Anything broken -> passive hang up until fixed (of course if they cna talk to their bestie about the issue, this is what they do).

Well, you can't. Like no past generation could stop their kids.

by grim_io 5mo ago

Well, you can't. Like no past generation could stop their kids.

Just like no past generation had so much information so readily available. One quick quip can always be rebutted by another quick quip, but it doesn't really move the conversation along in any meaningful manner.

JumpCrisscross 5mo ago

> no past generation could stop their kids Past generations absolutely protected their kids from cigarettes and alcohol. A gate doesn’t have to be 100% effective to have net benefits.

kelseyfrog 5mo ago
If one kid is able to bypass the system it means it's zero percent effective. Same thing with alcohol, and cigarettes. Especially if it means I have to show my ID to buy those things.
- smelendez 5mo ago
  It feels more complicated. Some kids getting access to booze here and there with planning and coordination is different from kids walking into a liquor store or bar whenever they want.
  - kelseyfrog 5mo ago
    It's literally all or nothing[1]. Either measures are 100 percent effective or they are completely broken and should not exist. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_(psychology)
    - dijksterhuis 5mo ago
      are you… are you /s-ing right now? it’s unclear to me whether you’re being satirical/sarcastic or not and i want to check before i point out a thing.
    - ziml77 5mo ago
      Shit thanks for pointing that out. My door lock isn't 100% effective at stopping thieves, so I guess I can get rid of that annoying thing. Will be nice to never worry about being locked out again!
    - yard2010 5mo ago
      There is never a simple solution to a complex problem, although there are many complex solutions to simple problems.
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
- JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
  > If one kid is able to bypass the system it means it's zero percent effective No. Like, obviously no. That’s not how effectiveness is ever measured.
- ImJamal 5mo ago
  Guess we should get rid of murder and rape laws, right?
grim_io 5mo ago
I'm not saying parents shouldn't try. But like your examples, it's not guaranteed to work. Install a DNS filter. Firefox circumvented that? Smart kid :) Censorship circumvention might be a good skill to have in the near future.
ImJamal 5mo ago
Well in the past there were laws banning the selling of cigarettes and alcohol to minors. Selling alcohol to a minor can cause you to lose your liquor license. With much of the online content being free and not involving a physical product it has become significantly harder for a parent to protect their children.
Auracle 5mo ago
> Past generations absolutely protected their kids from cigarettes and alcohol. I'm sorry, but what? Cigarettes, sure. Alcohol? Binge drinking was absolutely rampant at my school, and I don't think I'm alone. Don't get me wrong, some parents just buried their heads in the sand, but unless you're giving them a breathalyzer when they get home and severely punishing them all the time it's pretty hard to prevent.
saghm 5mo ago
Yes, but when I go to the grocery store, U don't buy alcohol or cigarettes (because I don't drink or smoke), and no one cards me. Even if I never accessed a single site like the ones being described, and despite there being no kids who have access to my devices because I don't have any children, according to these laws every OS I install is required to force me to provide proof of my age. That's a huge escalation over any of those other checks, and I'd be similarly against any check that required anyone to present id to literally enter a store that happens to sell alcohol or cigarettes. (Yes, you might get carded before you can go into a bar or a club, but we're talking about every possible device that can connect to the internet here; that's a lot closer to the grocery store than a bar or club terms of how much of a staple this is for most people's daily lives at this point. Cutting off my ability to access to my bank account, contact doctor, or pay my bills should not be something that should require additional steps because my devices which no children ever used could theoretically be used for a child to try to watch porn).
- JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
  > but we're talking about every possible device that can connect to the internet here I agree these proposals are garbage. But if everyone who can credibly say that is busy trying to block any age gating, this is what we’re going to get.
  - saghm 5mo ago
    > But if everyone who can credibly say that is busy trying to block any age gating, this is what we’re going to get. I'm certainly not busy trying to block a bunch of hypothetical policies that no one has proposed when there are garbage ones that are literally getting pushed right now. It sounds more like too many of the people who recognize the harm of this policy are too busy trying to claim that the burden for coming up with a non-garbage policy should be on the people who fundamentally disagree with that framing.
    - JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
      > the burden for coming up with a non-garbage policy should be on the people who fundamentally disagree with that framing Things a good way to put it. Yes. Regardless of whether you disagree with that framing, that is the frame that’s been set and is being run with. So you can make theoretical arguments against the framing. Or practical arguments against the policies within the frame.

subscribed 5mo ago

With all due respect.... this younger generation (zoomers and "alpha") is on average utterly clueless when it comes to technology. Fluent in pod tide trends and latest sticker packs, but utterly unable to comprehend anything not working, be it wifi, proxy, dns, their phone's mobile connection. Unable to even ask the question "_why_ is something not working" or "what can I possibly do with this arcane message obscuring my $app's screen". I know that's a quite broad generalisation but I see this in my kids' school across basically all their peers, and I can observe it online. Anything broken -> passive hang up until fixed (of course if they cna talk to their bestie about the issue, this is what they do).