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I sympathize with that point, but there's more to it than "what about teh menz?" The question is this: is this doing well on HN because HN is full of progressi

I sympathize with that point, but there's more to it than "what about teh menz?" The question is this: is this doing well on HN because HN is full of progressive-minded feminists upvoting a neat DIY project on its merits, or is it doing well on HN because it serves as fodder for the nerd-girl fantasies of a primarily male readership? I really think this is an important point that often gets missed on male dominated social news sites. Readers are quick to pat themselves on the back for the community's mature lack of slut-shaming, while neglecting to realize that an entirely different form of sexism and woman-objectification is taking place.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
- mistercow 14y ago
  I don't think the majority explicitly thinks like that. Probably, if you asked them why they upvoted, their post hoc justification would be about how not-sexist they were. They'd be proud of it. But the post hoc justifications people come up with when they actually think about their motivations are very often not the original reasons for their actions, especially when the original reasons are not admirable. Don't get me wrong here - I don't think that men should feel guilty about their gut reactions to stories like this. If the "female nerds are popular on the internet because they fuel male nerd-girl fantasies" problem is one that needs to be addressed, I have no idea of how to address it. I just think we should recognize that that's what's happening instead of congratulating ourselves on being so modern.
  - zerostar07 14y ago
    My deleted comment was "I don't think the majority thinks like that" , which i deleted because i don't have data to back it up. But after reading your reply, what the hell dude/gal? Can't it be that people upvoted the article because sexy subject+technology is double win? Can't it be because i am actually jealous i haven't hacked my penis yet? And i'm not even a Feminist. Now your theory about guilt and nerdgirl fantasies... i think you 're really reaching there
    - mistercow 14y ago
      >Can't it be that people upvoted the article because sexy subject+technology is double win? Can't it be because i am actually jealous i haven't hacked my penis yet? Yeah, it can be. I just doubt that it is. Sure, that may be the case for some people, but I'm talking about majority behavior, not universal behavior. >And i'm not even a feminist. That is apparent. >Now your theory about guilt and nerdgirl fantasies... i think you 're really reaching there Go to reddit and look at posts that fulfill the nerd-girl archetype. Now read the sleazy comments. We don't have those here, but that's because we have strong standards as a community for what is acceptable to say in comment threads, not because there aren't a lot of people here who would post those comments in the absence of those standards.
      - franticpedantic 14y ago
        You have absolutely zero evidence or basis for your assumption. The truth is that nobody has any idea what people's motivations were for upvoting it, but it deserved to be upvoted. The only person who has made this conversation sexist is you and those who brought the topic up.
        mistercow 14y ago
        I have plenty of evidence and basis in experience, and anyone can see exactly what I mean by following what I mentioned above. >The only person who has made this conversation sexist is you and those who brought the topic up. Ah yes, the same thing that anyone steeped in unchecked privilege says when they've got nothing left to argue. Black people are racist for complaining about discrimination, feminists are sexist for pointing out objectification, blah blah blah. Bored now.
        icebraining 14y ago
        For that argument to work, there needs to be sexism to point out, but all you have is conjecture.
        Karunamon 14y ago
rizzom5000 14y ago
No need for stereotypes. The article deserves to be up voted because it is remarkably thorough and well written.
- mistercow 14y ago
  I agree that it deserves to be upvoted for those reasons. I just don't think that's necessarily the primary reason it has been upvoted. Examining the "would this be ranked this high if it were about penis hacking instead?" question is productive because it addresses that.
  - rjknight 14y ago
    It probably would be (assuming the ban on penis-related article titles could be circumvented). This is actually a seriously good article of the kind that frequently get upvoted and I don't think this case has much to do with gender.
    - jQueryIsAwesome 14y ago
      It has everything to do with gender, a man hacking a fleshlight would get none or almost none upvotes, I bet it would even get flagged by a few. Its a predictable fantasy of the average reader of HN, the equivalent of a photo of a pretty woman doing charity with a cat in reddit. Is not only the fact that she is a woman, is the surrounding context of a sexual stimulation device that provoque so many upvotes. Personally I would downvote this if I could, I don't like my tech articles biased by hormones.
      - ErrantX 14y ago
        Reading the threads on this page the comments appear genuinely interested in this tech, and related themes. Asking intelligent questions Etc. In fact, the only awkward thread, which seems a little sexist is this one... Food for thought.
        14y ago
stcredzero 14y ago
> The question is this: is this doing well on HN because HN is full of progressive-minded feminists upvoting a neat DIY project on its merits, or is it doing well on HN because it serves as fodder for the nerd-girl fantasies of a primarily male readership? Yes. (With the caveat that "is full of" == "has more than 3")
cdelsolar 14y ago
So we're sexist and objectifying women by upvoting the article?
polto 14y ago
Are you literally retarded or just trolling? If the former, go back to jebezel with the other sluts and never come back.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

mistercow 14y ago
I don't think the majority explicitly thinks like that. Probably, if you asked them why they upvoted, their post hoc justification would be about how not-sexist they were. They'd be proud of it. But the post hoc justifications people come up with when they actually think about their motivations are very often not the original reasons for their actions, especially when the original reasons are not admirable. Don't get me wrong here - I don't think that men should feel guilty about their gut reactions to stories like this. If the "female nerds are popular on the internet because they fuel male nerd-girl fantasies" problem is one that needs to be addressed, I have no idea of how to address it. I just think we should recognize that that's what's happening instead of congratulating ourselves on being so modern.
- zerostar07 14y ago
  My deleted comment was "I don't think the majority thinks like that" , which i deleted because i don't have data to back it up. But after reading your reply, what the hell dude/gal? Can't it be that people upvoted the article because sexy subject+technology is double win? Can't it be because i am actually jealous i haven't hacked my penis yet? And i'm not even a Feminist. Now your theory about guilt and nerdgirl fantasies... i think you 're really reaching there
  - mistercow 14y ago
    >Can't it be that people upvoted the article because sexy subject+technology is double win? Can't it be because i am actually jealous i haven't hacked my penis yet? Yeah, it can be. I just doubt that it is. Sure, that may be the case for some people, but I'm talking about majority behavior, not universal behavior. >And i'm not even a feminist. That is apparent. >Now your theory about guilt and nerdgirl fantasies... i think you 're really reaching there Go to reddit and look at posts that fulfill the nerd-girl archetype. Now read the sleazy comments. We don't have those here, but that's because we have strong standards as a community for what is acceptable to say in comment threads, not because there aren't a lot of people here who would post those comments in the absence of those standards.
    - franticpedantic 14y ago
      You have absolutely zero evidence or basis for your assumption. The truth is that nobody has any idea what people's motivations were for upvoting it, but it deserved to be upvoted. The only person who has made this conversation sexist is you and those who brought the topic up.
      - mistercow 14y ago
        I have plenty of evidence and basis in experience, and anyone can see exactly what I mean by following what I mentioned above. >The only person who has made this conversation sexist is you and those who brought the topic up. Ah yes, the same thing that anyone steeped in unchecked privilege says when they've got nothing left to argue. Black people are racist for complaining about discrimination, feminists are sexist for pointing out objectification, blah blah blah. Bored now.
        icebraining 14y ago
        For that argument to work, there needs to be sexism to point out, but all you have is conjecture.
        Karunamon 14y ago

rizzom5000 14y ago

No need for stereotypes. The article deserves to be up voted because it is remarkably thorough and well written.

mistercow 14y ago
I agree that it deserves to be upvoted for those reasons. I just don't think that's necessarily the primary reason it has been upvoted. Examining the "would this be ranked this high if it were about penis hacking instead?" question is productive because it addresses that.
- rjknight 14y ago
  It probably would be (assuming the ban on penis-related article titles could be circumvented). This is actually a seriously good article of the kind that frequently get upvoted and I don't think this case has much to do with gender.
  - jQueryIsAwesome 14y ago
    It has everything to do with gender, a man hacking a fleshlight would get none or almost none upvotes, I bet it would even get flagged by a few. Its a predictable fantasy of the average reader of HN, the equivalent of a photo of a pretty woman doing charity with a cat in reddit. Is not only the fact that she is a woman, is the surrounding context of a sexual stimulation device that provoque so many upvotes. Personally I would downvote this if I could, I don't like my tech articles biased by hormones.
    - ErrantX 14y ago
      Reading the threads on this page the comments appear genuinely interested in this tech, and related themes. Asking intelligent questions Etc. In fact, the only awkward thread, which seems a little sexist is this one... Food for thought.
      - 14y ago

stcredzero 14y ago

> The question is this: is this doing well on HN because HN is full of progressive-minded feminists upvoting a neat DIY project on its merits, or is it doing well on HN because it serves as fodder for the nerd-girl fantasies of a primarily male readership? Yes. (With the caveat that "is full of" == "has more than 3")

cdelsolar 14y ago

So we're sexist and objectifying women by upvoting the article?

polto 14y ago

Are you literally retarded or just trolling? If the former, go back to jebezel with the other sluts and never come back.