3 ms·

The automation at least built unimaginable amounts of wealth for the rich people while the poor people are essentially just as poor they were hundreds of years

by samiv 5mo ago

The automation at least built unimaginable amounts of wealth for the rich people while the poor people are essentially just as poor they were hundreds of years ago.

joe_mamba 5mo ago
>while the poor people are essentially just as poor they were hundreds of years ago. How can people say false things like this with a straight face? Thanks to industrialisation, automation and mass production, the poor of today have access to things that even kings from hundreds of years ago couldn't even fathom, let alone poor people back then: abundant cheap food that poor people can now be fat instead of starve to death, cars, planes, MRI machines, helicopter ambulances, vaccines, personal heating and air conditioning, OZEMPIC, etc Kings back then would eat hard bread, shit down a vertical shaft that emitted the scent through the whole castle, and their sleeping chambers had ice on the walls in winter and lice in the clothes and bet sheets, plus they had parasites in their gut and any small disease could kill you. Meanwhile the cool homeless guy outside my building has 3 hot meals a day and a daily shower in the homeless shelter nearby, warm clean sleeping bag for winter, shades for summer, a bicycle for moving around town, a smartphone which he uses to watch youtube all day in his sleeping bag, plus access to medical care that kings of kings never had. All this with no job, and no care in the world.
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
- wiseowise 5mo ago
  > All this with no job, and no care in the world. Have you ever been without a job and/or homeless to say shit like this?
  - joe_mamba 5mo ago
    yes. Have you? Also, how nice of you to ignore my entire argument on how the poor today are NOT as poor as they were hundreds of years ago, and instead sidetrack the conversation one offtopic tangent for a cheap jab in the name of scoring some emotional virtue signaling brownie points.
- clsdvd 5mo ago
  [flagged]
  - card_zero 5mo ago
    So which do you mean: 1. None of that is necessary to having planes and MRI machines, so what you're replying to is basically correct, or 2. We should rouse ourselves from apathy in order to give up planes and MRI machines, and even out the poverty, which is eternal.
  - joe_mamba 5mo ago
    [flagged]
    - wolvesechoes 5mo ago
      [flagged]
      - joe_mamba 5mo ago
        [flagged]
        wolvesechoes 4mo ago
        [flagged]
        joe_mamba 4mo ago
        >Don't be pathetic. Don't break HN rules insulting people. I'm not your dad to talk to me like that. >This is not true. Why isn't it true? >Nothing to do with MRIs or Apollo missions. How is developing MRI machines and going to the moon not the utmost examples of peak human intelligence, achievements and meritocracy? If that isn't, what is?
    - samiv 5mo ago
      [flagged]
- samiv 5mo ago
  Because most of the poor people in the world (majority of the population of the planet actually) have no access to clean water, food or medical care or education and that is the same as it was hundreds of years ago.
  - joe_mamba 5mo ago
    [flagged]
- wolvesechoes 5mo ago
  > Thanks to industrialisation, automation and mass production, the poor of today have access to things that even kings from hundreds of years ago couldn't even fathom Thanks to colonialism, also in more modern form called globalism. > Kings back then would eat hard bread, shit down a vertical shaft that emitted the scent through the whole castle, and their sleeping chambers had ice on the walls in winter and lice in the clothes and bet sheets, plus they had parasites in their gut and any small disease could kill you. Wealth has no intrinsic value, only relative one. You are only wealthy relatively to other members of the society. Doesn't matter if pharaohs had less comfortable lives than me. What matters is that a gap between pharaoh and a worker working on pyramids was way smaller than between Jeff Bezos and person working at the Amazon distribution center. Also, most sweet fruits of progress that its prophets like to enumerate are not direct consequences of technological changes, but they came only after political struggle that has arisen exactly because the direct consequences were very dire for most people. If people pushing today for AI could decide on these things, they would be very happy to take away these hot meals from homeless people and let them starve to death.
  - joe_mamba 5mo ago
    >Thanks to colonialism, also in more modern form called globalism. You don't have to participate in globalism, you can be a hermit state that doesn't trade with the evil imperial capitalists, like Cuba and North Korea. Everyone wants to live there because the QoL is so good.
    - wolvesechoes 5mo ago
      And it so good, because west extracted wealth and materials from all around the world places, and still extracts through globalisation. QoL is so good here precisely because it is so poor out there.
      - joe_mamba 5mo ago
        >because west extracted wealth and materials from all around the world places If those "around the world places" had all the valuable resources that enabled modern civilisation when the west came and took them, why weren't they the ones to first make use of them to build computers, vaccines, MR machines and moon rockets, or at least clean drinking water and indoor sanitation facilities for their people? Or why didn't those "around the world places" then go and extract wealth and materials from the west instead? What stopped them? Surely it wasn't their moral values, since war, slavery and genocide even cannibalism, of their neighboring tribes and nations, was the norm of the day over there. >and still extracts through globalisation Correction: "pays for it through globalisation". That's how countries like India and China got so many people out of poverty after globalisation.

by samiv 5mo ago

The automation at least built unimaginable amounts of wealth for the rich people while the poor people are essentially just as poor they were hundreds of years ago.

joe_mamba 5mo ago

>while the poor people are essentially just as poor they were hundreds of years ago. How can people say false things like this with a straight face? Thanks to industrialisation, automation and mass production, the poor of today have access to things that even kings from hundreds of years ago couldn't even fathom, let alone poor people back then: abundant cheap food that poor people can now be fat instead of starve to death, cars, planes, MRI machines, helicopter ambulances, vaccines, personal heating and air conditioning, OZEMPIC, etc Kings back then would eat hard bread, shit down a vertical shaft that emitted the scent through the whole castle, and their sleeping chambers had ice on the walls in winter and lice in the clothes and bet sheets, plus they had parasites in their gut and any small disease could kill you. Meanwhile the cool homeless guy outside my building has 3 hot meals a day and a daily shower in the homeless shelter nearby, warm clean sleeping bag for winter, shades for summer, a bicycle for moving around town, a smartphone which he uses to watch youtube all day in his sleeping bag, plus access to medical care that kings of kings never had. All this with no job, and no care in the world.

deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
wiseowise 5mo ago
> All this with no job, and no care in the world. Have you ever been without a job and/or homeless to say shit like this?
- joe_mamba 5mo ago
  yes. Have you? Also, how nice of you to ignore my entire argument on how the poor today are NOT as poor as they were hundreds of years ago, and instead sidetrack the conversation one offtopic tangent for a cheap jab in the name of scoring some emotional virtue signaling brownie points.
clsdvd 5mo ago
[flagged]
- card_zero 5mo ago
  So which do you mean: 1. None of that is necessary to having planes and MRI machines, so what you're replying to is basically correct, or 2. We should rouse ourselves from apathy in order to give up planes and MRI machines, and even out the poverty, which is eternal.
- joe_mamba 5mo ago
  [flagged]
  - wolvesechoes 5mo ago
    [flagged]
    - joe_mamba 5mo ago
      [flagged]
      - wolvesechoes 4mo ago
        [flagged]
        joe_mamba 4mo ago
        >Don't be pathetic. Don't break HN rules insulting people. I'm not your dad to talk to me like that. >This is not true. Why isn't it true? >Nothing to do with MRIs or Apollo missions. How is developing MRI machines and going to the moon not the utmost examples of peak human intelligence, achievements and meritocracy? If that isn't, what is?
  - samiv 5mo ago
    [flagged]
samiv 5mo ago
Because most of the poor people in the world (majority of the population of the planet actually) have no access to clean water, food or medical care or education and that is the same as it was hundreds of years ago.
- joe_mamba 5mo ago
  [flagged]
wolvesechoes 5mo ago
> Thanks to industrialisation, automation and mass production, the poor of today have access to things that even kings from hundreds of years ago couldn't even fathom Thanks to colonialism, also in more modern form called globalism. > Kings back then would eat hard bread, shit down a vertical shaft that emitted the scent through the whole castle, and their sleeping chambers had ice on the walls in winter and lice in the clothes and bet sheets, plus they had parasites in their gut and any small disease could kill you. Wealth has no intrinsic value, only relative one. You are only wealthy relatively to other members of the society. Doesn't matter if pharaohs had less comfortable lives than me. What matters is that a gap between pharaoh and a worker working on pyramids was way smaller than between Jeff Bezos and person working at the Amazon distribution center. Also, most sweet fruits of progress that its prophets like to enumerate are not direct consequences of technological changes, but they came only after political struggle that has arisen exactly because the direct consequences were very dire for most people. If people pushing today for AI could decide on these things, they would be very happy to take away these hot meals from homeless people and let them starve to death.
- joe_mamba 5mo ago
  >Thanks to colonialism, also in more modern form called globalism. You don't have to participate in globalism, you can be a hermit state that doesn't trade with the evil imperial capitalists, like Cuba and North Korea. Everyone wants to live there because the QoL is so good.
  - wolvesechoes 5mo ago
    And it so good, because west extracted wealth and materials from all around the world places, and still extracts through globalisation. QoL is so good here precisely because it is so poor out there.
    - joe_mamba 5mo ago
      >because west extracted wealth and materials from all around the world places If those "around the world places" had all the valuable resources that enabled modern civilisation when the west came and took them, why weren't they the ones to first make use of them to build computers, vaccines, MR machines and moon rockets, or at least clean drinking water and indoor sanitation facilities for their people? Or why didn't those "around the world places" then go and extract wealth and materials from the west instead? What stopped them? Surely it wasn't their moral values, since war, slavery and genocide even cannibalism, of their neighboring tribes and nations, was the norm of the day over there. >and still extracts through globalisation Correction: "pays for it through globalisation". That's how countries like India and China got so many people out of poverty after globalisation.